Valley Entrance and climb to Roof Tunnel

[Alex]

Moderator comment: posts moved from "Warning Valley Entrance In Situ Ropes https://ukcaving.com/board/index.ph...ley-entrance-in-situ-ropes.34157/#post-420849

But you will grow a pair of wings if you go down Turbary pot, sorry, I could not resist!

 

[Babyhagrid]

In a real pinch I guess it would be possible to launch the pull through rope over the rock bridge and clip the other end to a large cavers D ring and get a small person to prussic up that way

 

[Brains]

Is the free climb too polished to be useful without a landline?
Would a safer, permanent solution be to equip the climb with either eyebolts for use with cowtails, or VF type staples? From what I recall it was about V.Diff, with a couple of exposed slippery moves?

 

[Samouse1]

Is the free climb too polished to be useful without a landline?
Would a safer, permanent solution be to equip the climb with either eyebolts for use with cowtails, or VF type staples? From what I recall it was about V.Diff, with a couple of exposed slippery moves?

The free climb is doable, being tall helps. A team could definitely push someone up the first move, which is the hardest move.

I don't think any more fixed aids are called for when it only takes 20-30 minutes to pop in and rig a rope

 

[Brains]

The free climb is doable, being tall helps. A team could definitely push someone up the first move, which is the hardest move.

I don't think any more fixed aids are called for when it only takes 20-30 minutes to pop in and rig a rope

Good point well made, the Devils Advocate replies with hindsight is perfect and being stuck at the bottom is... Mildly embarrassing!
There are many fixed aids in caves already, unofficially including the rope under discussion here. Given my health I have to say anything that happens here is probably unlikely to affect me, so my voice is hardly relevant

 

[Samouse1]

Good point well made, the Devils Advocate replies with hindsight is perfect and being stuck at the bottom is... Mildly embarrassing!
There are many fixed aids in caves already, unofficially including the rope under discussion here. Given my health I have to say anything that happens here is probably unlikely to affect me, so my voice is hardly relevant

I didn't mean for it to come across as dismissive!

I think the reality is that no matter what, an unnamed caver will put a rope on the pitch. People will then continue to rely on this until the next time it's shagged. So putting in anything else is seems like overkill, given how many bolts are already in the master cave

 

[alanw]

I see on FB that CRO were there a couple of nights ago evaluating rigging and rescuing along the traverse above the streamway. It seems a lot of rope and karabiners are needed, however there are suggestions it can be rigged/derigged as a series of pitches. I have personally done quite a lot of it just to see what it's like. A bit boring but good cowstails practice.

 

[Fulk]

Babyhagrid: In a real pinch I guess it would be possible to launch the pull through rope over the rock bridge and clip the other end to a large cavers D ring and get a small person to prussic up that way

I have on at least one occasion (having failed to do the free-climb) thrown the pull-through rope over the rock bridge and tied it off to a really good substantial thread near the bottom of the pitch (on the right-hand side), thus enabling someone to prusik up to the bridge.

 

[Steve Clark]

I see on FB that CRO were there a couple of nights ago evaluating rigging and rescuing along the traverse above the streamway. It seems a lot of rope and karabiners are needed, however there are suggestions it can be rigged/derigged as a series of pitches. I have personally done quite a lot of it just to see what it's like. A bit boring but good cowstails practice.

There are places where it's pretty easy to just climb up to the traverse bolts from the streamway. Immediately downstream of the fixed wire rope is a trivial scramble/walk up of about 4m. I can't exactly remember how far from the roof tunnel pitch this is, but saves starting at the Master Junction (assuming it's not in spate).

 

[A_Northerner]

Free climb is possible with the current bolts up the climb as protection at key stages. Even at my diminutive stature. I recommend everyone try it once to give them the confidence that they can get out even if their rope is derigged.

It's also possible to launch your pull-through rope over the rock bridge and belay off that.

Obviously only rely on these techniques if you've practiced them first.

 

[adep]

We currently have a project beyond the pitch and are in frequently, if the ropes have been removed we shall rig it on 11 mm ropes and leave in place for the foreseeable future, I would suggest though people still check these are in place before committing, this will be done today or tomorrow 27th/28th Feb

 

[andrewmcleod]

I suspect the rope has not been removed but it would be a Good Thing if they were at least partly replaced (as previously stated, last time I looked one hang was knackered and the Y-hang of the other was knackered where it was tied into the resin anchors). Bring a 12mm spanner for undoing maillons.

It would IMO be good to continue to keep the 'main' hang free of fixed ropes (i.e. the one straight off the end of the roof tunnel from anchors in the roof which does not usually have a rope in-situ).
On an entirely separate note, I'm not sure the topo included for this pitch (at the bottom of the Simpson/Swinsto topos for example) is actually accurate following the removal of one of the anchors? I think there's only one traverse anchor now, not two, and then the pitch-head Y-hang now. I would recommend people use the chunky natural thread up high on the right (looking outward) about 3-4m back from the edge to start their rope. Probably it's another example where it might be useful to at least state 'other resin anchors for a route down on the left (looking out) are available, as well as a traverse heading off to the right beyond the pitch head) otherwise people might turn up expecting four anchors and get tangled/confused.

 

[Benfool]

I went in last weekend and it had already been replaced

B

 

[IanWalker]

On an entirely separate note, I'm not sure the topo included for this pitch (at the bottom of the Simpson/Swinsto topos for example) is actually accurate following the removal of one of the anchors?

You are right - this topo is no longer correct. An example of the topo updates lagging behind anchor maintenance progress.

I think there's only one traverse anchor now, not two, and then the pitch-head Y-hang now. I would recommend people use the chunky natural thread up high on the right (looking outward) about 3-4m back from the edge to start their rope.

Yes - multiple natural threads are available, and an anchor on either side of the passage protect the approch to either Y-hang. Like this:-

A reminder that suggestions for improvements to topos can be emailed to the CNCC using the contact printed on the bottom of each topo. I'll send this one in now...