Water Tracing

[Pony]

Can anyone help with the general princiiples of water tracing?  Any articles in circulation? I am wanting to ascertain the courses of various inlets in the Manchester Hole/Nidd heads system. From what I have gleaned so far is that due to habitation upstream of the system the use of optical brighteners is a no go, although any info on the afore mentioned would be great. Any details of where to obtain materials would be appreciated aswell. Cheers

 

[Les W]

You can use dye's such as Rhodamine B and Fluorescein but you need to check with various agencies to make sure that nobody else is tracing in the catchment or you will screw up not only your traces but anybody else's too.

Dyes should only be used in small quantities, are subject to absorption by organic materials in the water and you will need access to a flourometer...

The best way is to do this in collaboration with a university that is geared up for tracing and has all the right contacts and equipment. If you can get an undergrad interested then they can do it as part of their dissertation, everybody wins then... 

 

[graham]

S,not just a matter of checking that nobody else is doing it, you generally need permission to add pollutants to the water supply.

 

[exsumper]

To avoid all the faff, some cavers in the past have used drain dye to  trace stream destinations within caves.  :spank:

Graham is to be commended for pointing  out how illegal, selfish and irresponsible such actions are!!.

 

[Les W]

To avoid all the faff, some cavers in the past have used drain dye to  trace stream destinations within caves.  :spank:

Isn't drain dye just Fluorescein...

 

[bograt]

To avoid all the faff, some cavers in the past have used drain dye to  trace stream destinations within caves.  :spank:

Isn't drain dye just Fluorescein...

Back in the '70's it was Fluorescene

 

[graham]

To avoid all the faff, some cavers in the past have used drain dye to  trace stream destinations within caves.  :spank:

Graham is to be commended for pointing  out how illegal, selfish and irresponsible such actions are!!.

Alex:

I have the well-documented reaction to what happened when LNRC was dye traced in the 1960's and the Vale of Neath Brewery had to shut down its water supply from the river. I was also staying at the WSG Hut in the early 70s when a dye tracing experiment from Ogof Fawr shut down the Hirwaun Industrial Estate. Cavers are really rather unpopular when such things happen.

 

[Rhys]

I was also staying at the WSG Hut in the early 70s when a dye tracing experiment from Ogof Fawr shut down the Hirwaun Industrial Estate. Cavers are really rather unpopular when such things happen.

http://www.swcc.org.uk/aboutswcc/newslett/archive/Newsletter_73.pdf - see page 6.

 

[graham]

I was also staying at the WSG Hut in the early 70s when a dye tracing experiment from Ogof Fawr shut down the Hirwaun Industrial Estate. Cavers are really rather unpopular when such things happen.

http://www.swcc.org.uk/aboutswcc/newslett/archive/Newsletter_73.pdf - see page 6.

I remember that morning well, Frank was very annoyed. I confess that it was me who dobbed up the perpetrator to him.

He had some justification as there had been a letter from the relevant water authority some time before stating categorically that the sink in question did not feed their borehole.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as any good scientist will tell you. 

 

[Rhys]

I confess that it was me who dobbed up the perpetrator to him.

So who did it?

This happened before I was born so I missed out on that detail. I just remembered coming across the article when browsing old newsletters...

Rhys

 

[graham]

So who did it?

It was a long time ago, so there would be no point in embarrassing him all over again. I just brought this up to make the point that unauthorised dye tracing can have serious & unfortunate consequences.

 

[droid]

Didn't someone turn Clapham's water yellow during a dye-testing exwercise?

Some time in the '60s/'70s?

 

[exsumper]

To avoid all the faff, some cavers in the past have used drain dye to  trace stream destinations within caves.  :spank:

Graham is to be commended for pointing  out how illegal, selfish and irresponsible such actions are!!.

Alex:

I have the well-documented reaction to what happened when LNRC was dye traced in the 1960's and the Vale of Neath Brewery had to shut down its water supply from the river. I was also staying at the WSG Hut in the early 70s when a dye tracing experiment from Ogof Fawr shut down the Hirwaun Industrial Estate. Cavers are really rather unpopular when such things happen.

Hence my commendation.  :ang:

 

[braveduck]

Clapham Lake was turned Red,when 500grams of Rhodamine was put in P5 just before a heavy downpour!
Those were  the days!

 

[langcliffe]

Clapham Lake was turned Red,when 500grams of Rhodamine was put in P5 just before a heavy downpour!Those were  the days!

And we still don't know where it enters the system!

 

[braveduck]

Well if you want to sit and watch in the cave I have about 1000grams of Rhodamine available.
That should do the trick!
It was NOT me who did that P5 test by the way.

 

[And]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as any good scientist will tell you. 

Hmm. Isn't it the religious types who usually say that?

 

[graham]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence as any good scientist will tell you. 

Hmm. Isn't it the religious types who usually say that?

Bit

but no. Subtle differences between the two stances.

 

[gus horsley]

Can anyone help with the general princiiples of water tracing?  Any articles in circulation? I am wanting to ascertain the courses of various inlets in the Manchester Hole/Nidd heads system. From what I have gleaned so far is that due to habitation upstream of the system the use of optical brighteners is a no go, although any info on the afore mentioned would be great. Any details of where to obtain materials would be appreciated aswell. Cheers

Try and get hold of a detailed geological map of the area and someone who is good at interpreting it.  It might give you some ideas of where to start if you're thinking of dye-tracing.  Is lycopodium used any more?