Chocolate fireguard
Active member
Isn't it odd how you can understand all the words - except perhaps one - and still have no idea what it's all about?
What caving related thing did you do today?
- Thread starter TheBitterEnd
- Start date
bagpuss
Well-known member
Taking photos on my phone camera of Mendip Underground to email myself survey and descriptions so I can print and laminate.. Dreaming of the day we can pay a fee to access Mendip Underground online to print things off 
Or the day get round to replacing my half working printer with a printer/photocopier...
Or the day get round to replacing my half working printer with a printer/photocopier...
langcliffe
Well-known member
Having upgraded one of my 1948-vintage ankles to the latest 2025 model a little less than ten weeks ago, I thought it was time to test it underground. The new ankle is an excellent colour match for the other, but unfortunately it's a lot fatter, which meant I couldn't get my wellies on and had to wear a pair of clunky canyoning boots. However, a pleasant but short trip from Manchester Hole through to Church Pot via Eternal Optimist gave me hope that I might be back to normal by the CPC winch meet.
PeteHall
Moderator
All in good time
I mean he might be involved in redhouse swallet explorationAll in good time
PeteHall
Moderator
It's not Redhouse, but it will almost certainly connect one day...
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
Yesterday was abandoned as two dropped out so sulking at home.
The Old Ruminator
Well-known member
Are Mendip caves long enough to warrant that ?Taking photos on my phone camera of Mendip Underground to email myself survey and descriptions so I can print and laminate.. Dreaming of the day we can pay a fee to access Mendip Underground online to print things off
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
Without a survey and compass some people could get lost in a phone box, so some of us may need that! (Not me of course, no 
)Apologies if this is done to death already in other threads that I didn't find.
I was thinking about Bagpuss printer comments. But my printer copier is inkjet which isn't optimal for reading stuff in the wet! As an experiment I had a few A4 sized things printed and laminated. The printing isn't too expensive but the P&P is around £10
so would only make sense for getting a big batch of stuff done.This morning I received said laminated prints... However I'm not convinced about the lamination as the sealed edge section is really really thin, not sure if water will leak in some spots? My caving this weekend if off
so instead will test a map of Wraysbury (dive lake with random stuff dropped in it. Map and compass practice in low vis) and see if it survives or not. If it does it might be good for cave surveys if A5 maybe.But.. the best option is probably a laser printer or old photocopier that uses toner cartridge (not inkjet) and print/copy stuff onto plastic "paper". So if Bagpuss still needs another printer, maybe that's a consideration?
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
So: firstly, anything taken underground will eventually be destroyed.
If you want your underground survey/description sheets to be decently robust, you need your own printer and laminator (and guillotine). You can get 125 micron laminating sheets (slightly thicker/better than 80 micron ones) by the hundred for £10 or so (and I have laminated hundreds and hundreds of caving things). Most of the cost here is in labour, hence why getting stuff laminated by printers is so expensive.
You can get stuff 'film-laminated' a lot more cheaply by some companies, but beware - this is just a film applied to the front and back before the sheets are cut out, which leaves the edges unsealed so they will a) leak and b) potentially peel away. What you want is 'encapsulated' laminating.
Even if you pay a printer to do the laminating for you, they won't trim down the pages a bit and inevitably the corners will quickly fail in use and the laminates will leak. You should use the guillotine to trim 5-10mm off each side of your A4 sheets before laminating, which really helps with their longevity. You should use a guillotine because cutting the edges of lots of sheets is really irritating.
Now waterproof paper is great, and you can get printers to print things on waterproof paper (see recent batches of OFD survey sheets we've done). You will need a laser printer if doing it yourself I think. However, over time the printing will rub off, so still worth laminating these (this is where film lamination might actually work, as leakage is not really a problem).
Laminated waterproof paper is probably as good as you can do, short of additional protection e.g. a zip-loc bag/map case or similar.
And DON'T FOLD THE DAMN LAMINATES (as people who know me may know if they've made the mistake of folding my laminates...)
If you want your underground survey/description sheets to be decently robust, you need your own printer and laminator (and guillotine). You can get 125 micron laminating sheets (slightly thicker/better than 80 micron ones) by the hundred for £10 or so (and I have laminated hundreds and hundreds of caving things). Most of the cost here is in labour, hence why getting stuff laminated by printers is so expensive.
You can get stuff 'film-laminated' a lot more cheaply by some companies, but beware - this is just a film applied to the front and back before the sheets are cut out, which leaves the edges unsealed so they will a) leak and b) potentially peel away. What you want is 'encapsulated' laminating.
Even if you pay a printer to do the laminating for you, they won't trim down the pages a bit and inevitably the corners will quickly fail in use and the laminates will leak. You should use the guillotine to trim 5-10mm off each side of your A4 sheets before laminating, which really helps with their longevity. You should use a guillotine because cutting the edges of lots of sheets is really irritating.
Now waterproof paper is great, and you can get printers to print things on waterproof paper (see recent batches of OFD survey sheets we've done). You will need a laser printer if doing it yourself I think. However, over time the printing will rub off, so still worth laminating these (this is where film lamination might actually work, as leakage is not really a problem).
Laminated waterproof paper is probably as good as you can do, short of additional protection e.g. a zip-loc bag/map case or similar.
And DON'T FOLD THE DAMN LAMINATES
(as people who know me may know if they've made the mistake of folding my laminates...)I print on Water-Jet paper with a Canon TS6050 inkjet printer. It's resistant to damp but not fully waterproof. Other inkjet printers are probably better (there's a list on the website). Mine was better when I used genuine Canon ink.
I have a fairly cheap A4 laminator which is pretty reliable using ordinary paper provided I trim the edges by 3-5mm and don't feed sheets immediately one after the other (otherwise it cools and doesn't fuse the edges fully). The laminated maps swill around in the bottom of a canoe in rain and whitewater without a problem.
I have a fairly cheap A4 laminator which is pretty reliable using ordinary paper provided I trim the edges by 3-5mm and don't feed sheets immediately one after the other (otherwise it cools and doesn't fuse the edges fully). The laminated maps swill around in the bottom of a canoe in rain and whitewater without a problem.
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