Yordas Cave graffiti cleanup

[CNCC]

We have been working to mitigate the visual impact of scratched graffiti in Yordas Cave, discovered back in April.

With help from a professional conservator, and our own conservation volunteers, the visual prominence of the damage has been reduced but sadly it can never be erased without leaving a clear impact on the rock patina. Full story and a few photos here:

Yordas graffiti cleanup

Great work from our volunteers to soften the visual impact of scratched graffiti in Yordas Cave. A reminder of the long term impact of such needless damage.

cncc.org.uk

Thinking of visiting Yordas Cave for your first underground experience?

For those who have chanced upon this post as a complete newbie to caving looking to experience your first trip underground...

We urge all visitors to be mindful that caves are a natural environment where needless damage such as this - particularly at such a much-loved site - can be irreversible and ruin the enjoyment of others. Yordas Cave is an amazing and very accessible location to experience your first time underground, and for those with a pair of wellies, a warm jumper or coat, a hard hat and a couple of reliable bright torchs, it can spark a lifelong fascination with caves. Tell someone where you are going, and please remember to leave the cave exactly as you found it, for others to enjoy.

• Leave no litter, cause no damage
• Take no souvenirs except photos
• Close all gates on the approach
• Park responsibly

If you would like to learn more about getting involved in caving, and sign up to one of our future 'venture underground' sessions:

Council for the Northern Caving Community

The CNCC is the regional council of the British Caving Association for northern England and Scotland, and the representative body for cavers and caving clubs in

cncc.org.uk

 

[David Rose]

Am I right in thinking that Yordas contains graffiti of real historical interest, dating back to the 16th century? If so, I hope that's not being cleaned up.

 

[CNCC]

You're correct that there is some very old graffiti of historic significance, but our cleanup was just some very recent contributions.

 

[Lankyman]

Am I right in thinking that Yordas contains graffiti of real historical interest, dating back to the 16th century? If so, I hope that's not being cleaned up.

Not to condone modern graffiti but at what point does it become worth preserving? I've seen late 19th/early 20th century scrawl protected as historical in America. Are we depriving our descendants of some interesting stuff in a few hundred years' time?

 

[Cavematt]

Interesting question, and it is hard to say when the cuttoff should be for something to be historically significant. Do you feel that CNCC should have left this graffiti alone in this situation?

 

[Lankyman]

Interesting question, and it is hard to say when the cuttoff should be for something to be historically significant. Do you feel that CNCC should have left this graffiti alone in this situation?

Without seeing the graffiti in Yordas I couldn't say but probably it's of limited interest. But that could equally have been said, at the time, of some of the 'historical' graffiti which could be simply names and a date smoked on the rock with a candle. When I was in Arches National Park in Utah in the nineties I was listening to a Ranger giving a talk about historical graffiti. I asked him the same question about when does graffiti actually become worth preserving. To my great surprise he came straight back with a year. I can't now remember what it was but it was fairly recent (well into the twentieth century IIRC).

 

[mikem]

Generally it's significant when only a few people are visiting, and not by the time that the masses arrive

 

[me]

When you can find fern fossils that date back to the late Devonian period, approximately 375 million years ago

Will modern graffiti last that long?

Interesting discussion about how todays rubbish will puzzle future archaeologists.

curious concept of technofossils.

 

[David Rose]

The question of when to clear up graffiti is intreresting. I mean, no one would advocate erasing that left by 18th century miners in Speedwell Cavern. In 2017, I was on a trip that found a new lead in the Huautla cave Agua de Carrizo. We went over a watershed exploring an upstream inlet and entered a descending streamway that eventually proved to be the key to connecting it to the main Sistema Huautla. On the wall before the first pitch down in this passage was a sign burned in carbide soot saying it had been left decades earlier by "RS" - the late Richard Schreiber, who I think died in 1992, and had been a doyen of TAG and Mexico exploration. It was a moving, eerie moment - and no one would want to clear that graffiti up, either, I suspect.

 

[Alex]

The line is simple, anything new added, it gets cleaned. There are some cases like David's above where a small marking is acceptable to literally mark the momentous occasion, but that's gotta be the exception. IMO