Author Topic: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?  (Read 10798 times)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2012, 08:12:46 am »
I quite like the stats actually :)
I also enjoy a quality caving trip too.
Best of those two worlds. Didn't claim they were correct though, only what I thought them to be. That's why I asked people to correct them and you did so thanks.

What I was trying to get at is that if too much emphasis gets placed on "records" the pursuit of records becomes a reason for exploration, not the result of exploration, ultimately. It can also lead to less regard for conservation issues. It can, in certain circumstances, alter the whole ethos of an activity. There's nothing wrong with getting a handle on a few basic facts Muddy Funkster; all I';m suggesting is that we keep things in proportion.

I broke a fairly important caving record a few years ago but chose not to make a song and dance about it because record breaking isn't really what caving should be about. Very few people are switched on to this particular event even now.

I guess the whole nation is focussed on "records" in the wake of the Olympics at the moment - but let's not lose sight of what's actually best about British caving.

Loved those pictures MRODoc.

Offline ianball11

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2012, 02:16:02 pm »
Ooo that's a teasing post!  I used to love a record attempt, mostly in the gym competing against my previous bests, not any more as I got old and that's not great for the ego.






Offline cavermark

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2012, 03:14:57 pm »
In case it helps, I think the longest sump in the UK is probably that one in Ireland which Artur was exploring before he died not long ago. I can't remember it's correct name without looking it up but there was a piece on it in Descent at the time.

Which is in the ROI and not in the UK at all...

If we have "team GB" in th'lympics, should we not look at biggest chamber etc. for GB (we share their geology). The Irish are a friendly bunch too...

Offline Les W

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2012, 03:55:47 pm »
In case it helps, I think the longest sump in the UK is probably that one in Ireland which Artur was exploring before he died not long ago. I can't remember it's correct name without looking it up but there was a piece on it in Descent at the time.

Which is in the ROI and not in the UK at all...

If we have "team GB" in th'lympics, should we not look at biggest chamber etc. for GB (we share their geology). The Irish are a friendly bunch too...
However Team GB does not include the ROI, just Northern Ireland...

I have no problem really, just being a pedant...
The Irish are great people, I have many friends over their and may be forced to attend their anuall Symposium again this year to share a beer or three...  :beer2:

On another note, we also share a lot of geology with the US, are you suggesting...  :tease:
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Offline paul

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2012, 05:18:18 pm »
Speaking as an Irishman, I have no objections to the term "British Isles" to refer to the UK and the Republic of Ireland as that would probably be more accurate anyway when talking Geology.

I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline cavermark

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2012, 11:03:49 pm »
In case it helps, I think the longest sump in the UK is probably that one in Ireland which Artur was exploring before he died not long ago. I can't remember it's correct name without looking it up but there was a piece on it in Descent at the time.

Which is in the ROI and not in the UK at all...

If we have "team GB" in th'lympics, should we not look at biggest chamber etc. for GB (we share their geology). The Irish are a friendly bunch too...
However Team GB does not include the ROI, just Northern Ireland...

I have no problem really, just being a pedant...
The Irish are great people, I have many friends over their and may be forced to attend their anuall Symposium again this year to share a beer or three...  :beer2:

On another note, we also share a lot of geology with the US, are you suggesting...  :tease:

D'oh!


Offline Alex

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2012, 01:13:17 pm »
Or the passage at the end of perfidia (Can't look up the correct spelling soz) in Illusion pot.

There is also other ratings we have ignored, like the hardest trip or the longest trip to the end.

I can only go off Yorkshire but I would guess hardest is Broken finger (from reading the description) and longest trip would be to the end of Lancliffe.

Look how we go off topic!
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Offline Brendan

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2012, 03:21:56 pm »
I imagine the longest trip is actually from Top Sink to Large Pot, or something similar
The original underground extreme ironer

Offline steviet_scg

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2012, 04:12:15 pm »
Longest by distance or by time?

At least there are fairly simple measures of longest.

Anything subjective (best, hardest, prettiest, muddiest) is best discussed in the pub :beer2:

Offline Subpopulus Hibernia

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2012, 04:41:25 pm »
In case it helps, I think the longest sump in the UK is probably that one in Ireland which Artur was exploring before he died not long ago. I can't remember it's correct name without looking it up but there was a piece on it in Descent at the time.

Which is in the ROI and not in the UK at all...

For the record you're probably thinking of the Polldeelin - Polltoophill Traverse at 2400m long and at a maximum depth of 62m, which was joined by Artur, though not traversed. The longest sump is the Pollaloughabo - Moran's Cave traverse which is 2870m long and mostly the work of Jim Warny, who did the through trip about 2 years back. There's another 5/6 sumps in Ireland longer than a kilometre, almost all in Galway.

The longest diving traverse in Britain would be Keld head I think, 1.4km(?) in length, but that's part of a flooded system more than 6km in length.

5 Deepest sumps in the British Isles would be:
-103m, Pollatoomary, Mayo
-90m, Wookey Hole, Mendip
-82m , Pollindre, Galway
-74m, Main Rising, Peak - Speedwell, Derbyshire.
-71m, Pollnacapple, Galway

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Offline ianball11

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2012, 05:09:30 pm »
aha! Yes longest would be different to deepest, deepest is what I think of when I think of Arturs diving exploits! What a deep hole of water that is.

Offline Anon

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2012, 05:21:06 pm »
The longest diving traverse in Britain would be Keld head I think, 1.4km(?) in length, but that's part of a flooded system more than 6km in length.
A tad over 3km from King Pot to Keld Head if memory serves me right.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2012, 05:47:34 pm »
A tad over 3km from King Pot to Keld Head if memory serves me right.

3050 m comes to mind...

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2012, 05:56:55 pm »
A tad over 3km from King Pot to Keld Head if memory serves me right.

3050 m comes to mind...

Recent accurate survey work suggests this is not quite correct.

Offline cavermark

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2012, 10:45:04 pm »
longer or shorter?


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2012, 09:04:21 am »
To answer you definitively I'd have to do quite a lot of work rationalising a huge amount of survey material and I  have more urgent plates spinning right now. Even with the most precise distances (and much of it was actually measured underwater with a non stretch Fibron tape) it's still not a definitive answer. The trouble is it depends on whether you quote the absolute shortest route or whether you quote the distance of the actual route taken through the underwater complex (bearing in mind very heavily kitted divers will swim through the largest passages from choice - and the largest passages are, in many cases, longer). This is why attempting to come up with such statistical lists which others may then quote as gospel is not always the best of ideas.

Offline SamT

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2012, 09:35:56 am »
...
Biggest horizontal entrance = Porth -Yr - Ogof
...
I think it's actually Peak Cavern, with probably the only UK record that will never be beaten.

Peak vs Smoo ???


Offline kdxn

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2012, 01:08:23 pm »
The Frozen Deep is a great discovery but announcing it as the biggest chamber in the UK is a bit premature.

Let's see the detailed survey results. Hopefully with lots of Disto shots so that we can get good quality area and volume numbers to compare with other UK stuff. Maybe I or someone else can get in there later this year and do a 3D laser scan.

As to what constitutes a passage or chamber, you could start with the BCRA or UIS glossary of those terms. They are subjective. There has been some international discussion about creating a more mathematically rigorous way of defining cave features but it gets very complicated. For example is Miaos Chamber the world's second largest chamber by area or is it a big passage ? Does GG chamber stop at the shaft top or shaft bottom and does the entrance shaft mean that GG can no longer be classed as a chamber ?

Out of interest, I am aware of the following UK caves with detailed 3D laser scans.
There are plenty more especially mines.

Yordas Chamber
GG Chamber
Mud Hall
OFD2 Entrance series and The Big Chamber Near The Entrance
Reads Chamber
Titan (Upper half only)
Smoo Cave
Nottingham Caves

   

Offline bograt

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2012, 02:40:09 pm »
Its announced as MENDIPS biggest, these lads have no pretentions. :) :)
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Offline kdxn

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2012, 03:14:20 pm »
Within this thread, "What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?", Muddy Funkster has listed TFD as the largest chamber.

Too often, the media get a hold of something like this and blow it out of all proportion which does a dis-service to caving.

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2012, 03:27:20 pm »
Its announced as MENDIPS biggest, these lads have no pretentions. :) :)
but of course if it is bigger than GB, it must be the biggest in the UK, as we all know GB was previously the biggest. C'mon LesW back me up here.

Offline Les W

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2012, 06:10:46 pm »
Its announced as MENDIPS biggest, these lads have no pretentions. :) :)
but of course if it is bigger than GB, it must be the biggest in the UK, as we all know GB was previously the biggest. C'mon LesW back me up here.

Well, that was my claim and as nobody has yet disproved it...  :unsure:
Isn't that how science works?  ;)
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Offline graham

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2012, 06:38:29 pm »
Well, that was my claim and as nobody has yet disproved it...  :unsure:
Isn't that how science works?  ;)

He who asserts must prove.

I don't think we need to invoke either Carl Sagan: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

or Christopher Hitchens: That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Offline cavermark

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2012, 09:21:24 pm »
Within this thread, "What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?", Muddy Funkster has listed TFD as the largest chamber.

Too often, the media get a hold of something like this and blow it out of all proportion which does a dis-service to caving.

Or National Geographic.... ;)

Offline cavermark

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Re: What is the UK's Biggest Chamber ?
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2012, 09:23:57 pm »

3050 m comes to mind...

Recent accurate survey work suggests this is not quite correct.
[/quote]

..so that's recent accurate survey work that hasn't been processed to provide a definitive answer, then?"
(tease)