Author Topic: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015  (Read 6024 times)

Offline christine

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Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« on: February 23, 2015, 11:00:06 pm »
Footleg has very kindly offered to set aside a weekend for teaching Therion, use of Disto X and cave surveying techniques.

Dates are 28th and 29th March 2015.

It will be based in the Mendips and I will look into a venue for teaching (probably the long room in the Hunters). Cost will be circa £20 a head with 12 people and will only run if there is sufficient interest.
Please put your name down if you plan on attending (you say, you pay basis....)
This is an opportunity not to be missed!

1. Christine Grosart
2. Carmen Smith
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

Offline axbridgecaver

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 04:12:05 pm »
Please could you add me to the course - Alan Gray

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2015, 09:18:51 pm »
Of course  :)

Ive just asked Paul for a rough format for the weekend.
I'm asking for £10 deposit to secure a spot and to make sure the trainer(s) are not out of pocket once hey have come down for the weekend.
Please can anyone who is coming PM me for payment details.
Cheers
Chris

The list so far:
1. Christine
2. Carmen
3. Damon
4. Jonathan
5. Henry
6. Alan

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 08:55:52 am »
Hi, just had notification of the format for the course, which you may find helpful:

Course will be two days. Saturday we cover the basics of the software and what it can do, get underground for some practical training and to gather some data and then get it loaded into the software. Sunday we learn how to draw up in Therion in detail.

Offline mrdetail

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 11:07:17 am »
PM sent  :)
Ta JDC
go easy

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2015, 08:14:48 pm »
Grr..would be helpful if I could update my OP but as I can't, sorry for the further updated posts....
So far...

1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Damon
4. Jonathan £10 paid
5. Henry
6. Alan £10 paid
7. Jon D Casto £10 paid
8. Amy (Sat only)
9. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only)
10. Big Stu
11. Jed W
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 08:24:01 pm by christine »

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 12:56:06 pm »

1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Damon
4. Jonathan £10 paid
5. Henry £10 paid
6. Alan £10 paid
7. Jon D Casto £10 paid
8. Amy (Sat only)
9. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only)
10. Big Stu
11. Jed W
12. Dave G
13.
14.

Only 2 places left guys....

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 09:00:24 pm »
1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Damon
4. Jonathan £10 paid
5. Henry £10 paid
6. Alan £10 paid
7. Jon D Casto £10 paid
8. Amy (Sat only) £10 paid
9. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only) £10 paid
10. Big Stu
11. Jed W
12. Dave G £10 paid
13.
14.

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2015, 10:35:54 pm »
The long function room in the Hunters Lodge Inn, Priddy, has been booked for the weekend for the course and can act as a 'base'.
Course is almost full. Just waiting on payments, so to secure your place please send £10 via paypal to my email which you can PM me for.

1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Damon
4. Jonathan £10 paid
5. Henry £10 paid
6. Alan £10 paid
7. Jon D Casto £10 paid
8. Amy (Sat only) £10 paid
9. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only) £10 paid
10. Big Stu
11. Jed W
12. Dave G £10 paid
13. Rupert Massey

Offline timwatts

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2015, 11:27:30 pm »
I did this course a few years ago and it was awesome.

I've forgotton more than i've remembered though and would love to do it again but i'll be working offshore on the proposed dates.

Would there be an option to produce some video and or training notes.

I'd be happy to contribute actual beer tokens for some training material i could refer back to.

(I have a much under-used DistoX)



TIM WATTS
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United Cavers Exploration Team
www.ucet.org.uk
chairman@ucet.org.uk

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2015, 11:33:58 pm »
I've had lots of requests to run one at a future date (like you I tend to benefit from learning things twice...) so never fear. I expect I'll be asked to organise another some time in the summer perhaps.
We'll have a photographer for sure but can't promise notes - my 'notes' look like a spider has walked in ink and then had an epileptic fit on the page......

That said, I will try and take something down for my own learning and will do some sort of course summary/report on here afterwards.

Offline Antwan

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2015, 10:14:13 am »
Blatent plug, if anyone is thinking of getting some *Indestructible notebooks of me for the course get your orders in early as I have a busy middle of the month coming up.

* About as tough as you can get...

Offline mulucaver

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2015, 10:42:17 pm »
I did this course a few years ago and it was awesome.

I've forgotton more than i've remembered though and would love to do it again but i'll be working offshore on the proposed dates.

Would there be an option to produce some video and or training notes.

I'd be happy to contribute actual beer tokens for some training material i could refer back to.

(I have a much under-used DistoX)

Have a look at Therion and DistoX Training Course Guide on the Cave Surveying Group website http://cp.cavesurveying.org.uk/index.php/articles/3-therion-tutorial
Dave Clucas
Exploring the World
One Cave at a Time

Offline andrew

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2015, 07:54:39 am »
Although excellent, this guide is now getting a bit dated in places, however, still a very good introduction to the principles, and as far as I can tell everything is still valid. Footleg wrote it when he came on the paperless surveying course back in 2011. Since then things like context menus have been introduced, plus both of us have learnt more and streamlined use of Therion.

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 04:50:41 pm »
1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Damon
4. Jonathan £10 paid
5. Henry £10 paid
6. Alan £10 paid
7. Jon D Casto £10 paid
8. Amy (Sat only) £10 paid
9. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only) £10 paid
10. Big Stu
11. Jed W
12. Dave G £10 paid
13. Rupert Massey
14. Sarah Payne
15. Mark Vaughan

The course is full now folks. I'll offer up spare spaces if the remaining deposits don't come in or if anyone drops out.
If any of the above can no longer make it, please let us know so that we can re-advertise your space.

Format for the weekend: (from Footleg)
We will do a classroom sesson on the Saturday morning before going caving straight after lunch. That way we get time to put the data into the computers before dinner on the Saturday. So meeting time and place on the Saturday would be the hunters for a 9am start. Go down Swildons after lunch on the Saturday. Sunday we would be at the Hunters all day (suggest a 9:30am start on the Sunday unless everyone is really keen to get the most out of Sunday as possible).

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 11:54:43 am »
1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Damon
4. Jonathan £10 paid
5. Henry £10 paid
6. Alan £10 paid
7. Jon D Casto £10 paid
8. Amy (Sat only) £10 paid
9. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only) £10 paid
10. Big Stu £20 paid in full
11. Jed W £20 paid in full
12. Dave G £10 paid
13. Rupert Massey
14. Sarah Payne £20 paid in full
15. Mark Vaughan £20 paid in full

Just waiting for the last ones to pay their deposits. Can we get this sorted asap please - I'll offer up spaces again if deposits don't come in this week.
Cheers
Chris

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2015, 11:03:30 pm »
Final count, paid and course now full.
1. Christine £10 paid
2. Carmen £10 paid
3. Jonathan £10 paid
4. Henry £10 paid
5. Alan £10 paid
6. Jon D Casto £10 paid
7. Amy (Sat only) £10 paid
8. Richard N (Spike) (Sat only) £10 paid
9. Big Stu £20 paid in full
10. Jed W £20 paid in full
11. Dave G £10 paid
12. Rupert Massey £20 paid in full
13. Sarah Payne £20 paid in full
14. Mark Vaughan £20 paid in full

Offline Spike

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2015, 12:03:33 pm »
Are we expected to bring DistoXs and PDAs?

This could be a problem as mine are imaginary...  :down:

Offline andrew

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2015, 07:58:46 pm »
Hopefully we will have enough to got round, but the more people bring kit the better

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2015, 10:24:13 am »
I'll likely buy a Disto X a few days before (only ever borrowed somebody else's) so I'm happy to be guinea pig in terms of how to add software and do stuff with circuit boards. I understand there is an easier way but it costs £600 upfront...

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2015, 09:56:14 am »
Accommodation:
Please note that unless you have asked me to arrange accommodation, it is assumed that you have sorted yourselves out.
There is an assumption that I have booked the Wessex - I have not as nobody other than Andrew Atkinson requested it.
John Cooper tells me the Wessex is full with other groups but there is no shortage of other clubs nearby.

Starting time:
Please be ready at the Hunters Lodge Inn, Priddy long room for 9am prompt on the Saturday and Sunday.
Please bring:
Caving kit (no pitches)
Any survey equipment you have (you can share if you don't have it yet)
Paper and pen
Laptop
If you can download Therion and it's components prior to arrival it will doubtless speed things up. We may not have internet access at the Hunters (it's unlikely).
Chris
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 10:16:26 am by christine »

Offline christine

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Final Details for the weekend - please take note:
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 10:08:31 pm »
Hi All,

For the cave survey training course this weekend we will be meeting at the Hunters Lodge Inn for 9:00am on Saturday. The content of the course is going to be roughly as detailed at the end of this email (but tailored to suit the needs of the group as we go).

The Training location does not have internet access, so although we
will try to bring everything that we need, to get the most from the
weekend it would be good if people could have as much as possible
prepared in advance. This is mainly software loaded onto your
computer. We can probably help with most Windows and Linux problems
between us.

Equipment to bring

Laptop computer (you need one to do all the drawing up hands on
exercises we will be covering over the weekend). Preferably one each,
but sharing one between two people is possible.

If you have a DistoX V1 or V2 then bring it, along with:

Clear plastic bags and insulation tape, plus a box to take it
underground are very useful (not critical for the part of Peak Cavern
we will be surveying)

If you have a DistoX, then also bring a Windows mobile PDA.

If your PDA is not ruggedized then also bring a box or bag to put it
in that you can still use the screen with, and a pen pointer to write
on the screen. One of the one piece plastic pens
are best, most PDAs come with metal and plastic mixed ones that do not
survive underground so well.

A quick search gives lots of results, the box some people use is no
longer made. Aquapaq cases work, but the newer material versions (made
from TPU) tend to be a bit stickier for the stylus to draw on, so it
tends to jump across the screen (unless their is a little water on the
case!). You may find cheaper PVC cases for phones or Kindles work
better. So long as you PDA fits inside and you can draw on the screen
through the window then you will be fine for this course. A ziplock
plastic sandwich bag will do for an easy walk in cave.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=50&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=waterproof+pda+bag&oq=pda+bags

We will try to have a few spares with us (bags, PDAs and DistoXs for
those who have not got their own yet).

Memory cards, usually SD, for the PDAs would be good.

Installed on the PDA, you must have the following software:

PocketTopo (v1.372)

Download from this site http://paperless.bheeb.ch/

Direct download link:
://paperless.bheeb.ch/download/PocketTopo.zip

For PocketTopo to run, you will also need the dotnet framework on your
pda, which can be hard to find so we have put the DotNet_cabs here:

http://www.ubss.org.uk/__Files/

Unzip and put them on an SD card. Pick the correct one and run it on
your PDA (I have found no easy way to work out which one to run, but
getting the wrong one seems to just gives an error, so I just try them
in order until it works).

Installed on your computer, you must have the following software:

Therion (current version is 5.3.16, released on Dec 30, 2014)

Download from this site http://therion.speleo.sk/download.php
TopParser (v 1_2_3)

Windows exe file is here (needs unzipping):
https://bitbucket.org/AndrewA/topparser/downloads
For Linux (or Windows if you have python (and mac)), you can get the
python source to run directly (I'll assume you know what you are
doing!):
https://bitbucket.org/AndrewA/topparser/overview

Nice to have additional software:

Survex
http://survex.com/download.html
gmapcapture
http://code.google.com/p/gmapcatcher/
Downloads links on the left of that page.

Terraintool
http://www.ubss.org.uk/terraintool/terraintool.php
This needs Java to run, see instructions on the webpage.

If you can arrive with all this installed ready for Saturday morning
then we can get straight into showing you how to use it all. But don't
worry if you struggle to get any of this sorted out, we can help you
get set up on the day if needed.

Any problems then just ask!

We are looking forward to a great weekend,
Footleg

General course content and timings:
Day1
Principles of Surveying  (9.30-10.30)

Centreline and Stations – tape, compass, clino
Passage dimensions LRUD (2 main conventions) and/or splays
    splays can measure many features including corners.
Drawings – plan, extended elevation, projected elevation, cross sections.

Grades.
Avoiding magnetic influences.

Overview of the files and folders for a single surveying (10.30-10.55)


Outputs

Many outputs, main ones are

pdf – plans and elevations
3d – mainly used for centreline data, but can do other things
lox – 3D solid model with surface.
Also kml, vrml, sql, txt and more

Break (10.55 – 11:05)

Use of repositories (11:05 – 11:30)


The distoX and PocketTopo (11.30 - 12.30)

Cave Practical - in Swildons Hole Entrance Series (after lunch)

    Calibration
    Splays
    Legs
    Plan
    Cross sections
    Extended Elevation

Collect own data, return and get the data into Therion.

Produce 3d (17.30 - 19.00)

Day 2

Drawing up the survey

Include
    Points (including passage slope
    Lines
    Areas
    Maps
    Pillars
    Cross sections

More advanced features

Co-ordinate systems
    Entrances
Surface overlays

Offline kdxn

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2015, 08:04:26 am »
A three button mouse makes it easier to use Therion and Survex.

Some people did not have this on the last survey course.

Offline Duncan S

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2015, 02:15:39 pm »
Many thanks to everyone for making me feel welcome  :beer2:
I found it fascinating; it was a real eye opener...
The delegates already have the full set of images, but I've put the full set up in a gallery for sharing.
http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Blog/2015-03-28-Surveying/48283653_mM3DF5

Here's a few images :)











A special thanks to Badger, Spike and Amy for offering to play around for the camera on the way out - I hope they like the results as I love them!

Offline christine

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2015, 03:48:14 pm »
Can't thank Footleg, Andrew, John and Badger enough for their time this weekend.

It's an extremely steep learning curve and if anyone is considering doing this course, for heaven's sake make sure you get your paws on the Therion manual and make sure everything is installed and working before you even go near the course. :wall: Don't do what I did and turn up hoping you have all you need!

I was very fortunate that the guys and also Jed Waldren had extraordinary knowledge - and patience - so I was able to get Therion half working but I got behind due to technical issues and will have to do the course again to get my head around Therion some more.
If you have a Mac - bear in mind that all the stuff you need is windows based and simply using crossover etc does not work. I'd installed Therion but only the front page. It wasn't working when it came to rendering the data.
I'm now in the process of installing Bootcamp to get all the software up and running.
Then I need to buy a PDA.
Then the Disto upgrade board.....

I think this course could easily be run over 4 days, especially for people who have no prior working knowledge of any of it.

I did enjoy the practical surveying part and calibration wasn't so much of a chore once you knew what you are doing.

Sketching on the PDA takes some skill to be fast at it - so will be getting plenty more practise once my new toys are up and running.

All in all it was a super valuable course - Just wish it had been twice as long!

 :thumbsup:


Offline axbridgecaver

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 05:02:37 pm »
Thanks Christine for organising the course and also to the instructors - Footleg, John and Andrew for their patience and help.

As Christie says it should be run over four days so much information to take in.

I am sold on Therion an amazing package - but loads to learn.

Now off to practice!!

Offline badger

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Re: Surveying course 28th-29th March 2015
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2015, 06:52:36 pm »
To be fair, my bit really was using Disto and PDA underground, the Therion bit I struggled with