Author Topic: Any New Finds?  (Read 3305 times)

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2017, 07:00:38 pm »
The Old Ruminator wrote: "Personally I am not sure how a reluctance to publish new bits of cave here can be justified."

I've been mulling this comment over for a while and have a lot of empathy with this sentiment. But I thought at least some readers might appreciate my own take on the thought. In my case - which doesn't apply to all cavers of course - I belong to three good clubs (two in the Dales and one in the Peak District), each of which produces a high quality journal. I like to support this forum but I find myself torn between that and loyalty to my clubs. I'm involved in any number of exploration projects of course and these do come good and produce rewards. But I'm in the habit of writing stuff for journals, so I seldom get round to preparing exploration accounts for this fine forum.

Of course, this may be a good place for other cavers to advertise their finds. It would work well, for example, for a breakthrough by a co-operative group of cavers from several clubs (in which case it perhaps wouldn't be fair for a single club to have all publishing rights). Many clubs don't produce their own publications anyway, so their members have to look for other ways to record their discoveries.

I also like to try to support Descent magazine. Chris & Judith have done amazing things with this journal and we should all support it by providing them with material.

These are just my own thoughts; I appreciate many cavers are in different circumstances. But I've always tried to contribute to this forum in plenty of other ways, because those who do all the work to run this forum also deserve our support.

Maybe that at least gives part of the answer, Old Ruminator? I certainly enjoy reading the material you put on here.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2017, 07:13:08 pm »
Agree totally Pitlamp. I would like to think, though, that wherever one's priorities lies it comes before Facebook.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2017, 08:36:51 pm »
Agree totally Pitlamp. I would like to think, though, that wherever one's priorities lies it comes before Facebook.

 :lol:

Don't worry lad, I'm still resisting FB altogether!

 ;)

Offline NewStuff

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2017, 08:39:11 pm »
Agree totally Pitlamp. I would like to think, though, that wherever one's priorities lies it comes before Facebook.

If you organised all of your digging trips via facebook, your priorities may be different ;-)
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Online Pegasus

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 09:17:59 pm »
Facebook is good for many things caving, however what the forum does better is enable cavers to search its archives and find information more easily.  Try looking up a dig report you may have read about 3 years ago by someone on facebook - good luck with that.  If you are struggling to find something on the forum, someone on here will be able to help you.  The depth of knowledge still astounds me...

A post on facebook does not reach everyone - goodness knows how facebook decides what you see and what you don't - it's a subtle difference, however I believe cavers visit the forum looking for information and will search out what interests them whereas on facebook posts appear on your timeline whether you are interested or not....apart of course from the posts from UKC which surely are a must read  ;D ;D

Between 650 and 1000+ cavers a day visit UKC and digging/trip reports are firm favourites - so go on, tell your fellow cavers about your adventures rather than just support facebook which cares nothing about cavers, caving and caves??

Pegasus  :)

Online Pegasus

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2017, 09:30:18 pm »


I have been encouraged with the responses so far to this thread thanks guys. I will make sure I continue to let you all know how digs are progressing in Nidderdale. Wish I found posting the pictures easier, if I'm honest such a faff, as love to see photos and videos.

Goydenman, honestly it's not hard to post photos once you have the hang of it, blimey if I can do it anyone can! (said the Luddite).  Don't use photobucket (bastards) for third party hosting or facebook (as photos soon disappear).

Check out this thread: https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=19799.0 on how to post photos.

If I can be of any more help let me know - we would love to see your digs reported here, especially if there are photos  :thumbsup:


Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2017, 06:42:26 pm »
My 100th dig in Vurley today. Not bad in two and a half years for someone over 70. Can't write any more as I have to lie down.

Might find a photo later ---

Oh Yes. Using Postimage currently which is easy to use.

Offline Goydenman

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2017, 06:50:52 pm »
100th dig wow well done Old Ruminator....get a good rest and back to it

Offline TheBitterEnd

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2017, 08:22:42 pm »
My 100th dig in Vurley today. Not bad in two and a half years for someone over 70. Can't write any more as I have to lie down.


Well done!  :clap2:
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Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2017, 05:45:34 pm »
The Old Ruminator wrote: "Personally I am not sure how a reluctance to publish new bits of cave here can be justified."

I've been mulling this comment over for a while and have a lot of empathy with this sentiment. But I thought at least some readers might appreciate my own take on the thought.

I too have thought a lot about this. While I agree with both of you, another truth does exist. In most cases there is no obligation to report on any trip or discovery. Sometimes acceptance of a grant or permit creates a commitment to report, otherwise it's the decision of the caver(s) doing the work. Some do not like to write and feel no need to gloat over their discoveries. Others are competitive and secretive. Others wait for a neverending project to be finished. Whatever the case, we can't really complain about a lack of reporting. They don't owe us anything. I say this despite my strong belief in the value of thorough and accessible (not necessarily easily) documentation.

If I may add some personal boasting, my own exploration has been both successful and interesting lately. When I was an NSS member and the NSS forum was active, I used to write straightforward and detailed trip reports for club publications or the NSS News, and semi-poetic narratives for the forum. I have continued to write in both styles, but having no suitable means to publish incrementally am organizing this material into a second book. I feel sure it will be unique, including original data, maps, trip reports, sketches, statistics, essays, interviews, poetry, historical and geographical profiles, and photographs within a single volume. Whether or not it will be good is a bigger question.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 05:53:05 pm »
There's nothing in your first paragraph above (Kenilworth) that I can disagree with.

I'm aware of at least one lengthy cave in my own favourite caving area which has never been reported anywhere, because the discoverers have (commendably) stuck to the undertaking they gave not to, when they were allowed access originally.

People have all sorts of valid reasons for when, where and how often they tell the rest of the caving community about their work and resulting successes. At the end of the day, that's their decision of course.

The only really lousy reason for not reporting is laziness.

Offline pwhole

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 10:09:57 pm »
Another interesting variant can be somewhere like JH, which has 'become' a Scheduled Monument since it was first entered, merely by dint of being beneath a Scheduling zone intended only for preserving surface works - and so any 'exploration' that involves even moving rocks (or drilling bolts!) now is technically classed as 'damage', and any permission to work can only be granted by the Secretary of State. I had an interesting logic discussion over this with EH, and the team have regularly discussed whether ever to publish our explorations in there as a result, but we're going to shortly. They can come and drag me away in chains if they must.

Not only that, but the Speedwell streamway meanders in and out of the Scheduling zone, so you can dig on this bend, but not that one... :read:

Offline robjones

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2017, 12:51:01 am »
A scheduling authority (EH, Cadw, etc) can word the scheduling instrument to limit depth or to exclude certain aspects of the subsurface. This flexibility permitted numerous collieries in C20 to work beneath scheduled monuments and continues to permit some current mining operations to work beneath scheduled monuments.

Scheduling doesn't have to extend to the centre of the Earth - but it requires some careful thought on the part of the scheduling authority when framing the relevant documents. 

Offline Leclused

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2017, 09:39:15 am »
Yesterday the team at the PSM/Anialarra pushed our new find (Sima Regalo) from -140m to -200m :-) Stopped above next pitch (20-30m deep) due to pitch-entrance too small. But that will be solved today if the weather allows it.

The team had a lot of snow and rain and the forecast is not very good for the week-end. Again snow and rain  :down:

Follow them (and me from saterday on) via FB : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1362549833863322/


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Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2017, 11:16:07 am »
Yesterday the team at the PSM/Anialarra pushed our new find (Sima Regalo) from -140m to -200m :-) Stopped above next pitch (20-30m deep) due to pitch-entrance too small. But that will be solved today if the weather allows it.

The team had a lot of snow and rain and the forecast is not very good for the week-end. Again snow and rain  :down:

Follow them (and me from saterday on) via FB : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1362549833863322/


Facebook can be more relevant if links are posted here on the forum. Likewise the same applies to blogs. I did a list of Facebook Groups relevant to my collecting hobby on our bottle forum. Surprisingly there were dozens world wide and if you include photography you would find the same for caving. Sadly many Facebook Groups are closed and you have to join to see content. Our Mendip diggers group works like that though I must say you can probably guess who the biggest contributor is. Yes the shear volume of groups dilutes the information to an impossible point to assimilate. This blog is one of the best for Mendip and " open " not " closed " like our own site.

http://www.dighalloween.mendipgeoarch.net/#home



Online danthecavingman

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2017, 05:18:56 pm »
Has there been a significant find in South Wales at Fiddy's farm cave then? Not that I have even the faintest idea where that is....

Dan.
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Offline andrewmc

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2017, 12:04:01 am »
I'm aware of at least one lengthy cave in my own favourite caving area which has never been reported anywhere, because the discoverers have (commendably) stuck to the undertaking they gave not to, when they were allowed access originally.

Possibly it might have been better not to have made the undertaking at all, and never to accept such terms and conditions - but I am willing to see both sides of that argument.

Offline NigR

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2017, 12:13:29 am »
Has there been a significant find in South Wales at Fiddy's farm cave then? Not that I have even the faintest idea where that is....

Dan.

No, there has not (see latest Draenen thread for details). A small discovery was made over a year ago but that is all.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2017, 08:36:58 am »
I'm aware of at least one lengthy cave in my own favourite caving area which has never been reported anywhere, because the discoverers have (commendably) stuck to the undertaking they gave not to, when they were allowed access originally.

Possibly it might have been better not to have made the undertaking at all, and never to accept such terms and conditions - but I am willing to see both sides of that argument.

I understand your point. I guess it's up to those involved to make that judgement. Only they know the particular circumstances. Of course, sooner or later other cavers will (re)discover it. If circumstances have changed then they'll have to make their own decisions about whether and where to publish.

(By the way, to save anyone asking me privately - no, the example I referred to is not a project I've been involved with personally.)

Offline pwhole

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2017, 03:02:46 pm »
We had one recent dig where we informed the landowner afterwards (!), but thanks to a good relationship, they asked us to keep it quiet until it was made safe for casual visitors, which it (almost) is. And then we will publish.

Online Huge

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2017, 12:51:45 pm »
This recent enough?

Digging into new passage in Draenen yesterday. Unfortunately, it was only 12m of flatout crawl, to a T junction, where it closed right down. We won't be going back!  :)

Online mudman

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2017, 01:30:47 pm »
12m is a big find in some people's book.  ;D

Offline Goydenman

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2017, 06:22:54 pm »
Thanks Huge - 12m plus photos.....good work in my book

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2017, 08:43:14 pm »
Win some, lose some.

Keep going and you'll hit the jackpot sooner or later.

 ;)

Online Huge

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Re: Any New Finds?
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2017, 08:52:47 pm »
Thanks both.

A completely opportunistic find as evidenced by the lack of tools. We were making our way back out of a dead end passage and looked down an oxbow in the hope of bypassing a narrow section in the main passage. The oxbow got very tight and when turned around, looking at the oxbow from the opposite direction, there was a small arch visible, dropping into blackness. Five minutes digging and about ten minutes exploration!