Author Topic: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project  (Read 695 times)

Online alastairgott

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Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« on: August 09, 2018, 11:04:59 pm »

I've started a Therion project today, I'm guessing it won't be a large one. As it's not a large cave (but does have some intricacies), but I've made a good start today.


As I say work in progress and I don't know when i'll be back. but still part way complete. in comparison to an original. http://www.ucet.org.uk/~ucet9504/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&Itemid=191&catid=21&id=865#32381


I believe I got just past burial chamber, so some loops to connect and some bits at the end to join on.

Online alastairgott

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kml problems Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 12:22:05 pm »
I have made an attempt to output it into a kml file for viewing on google maps, there are 2 snags.
1) I need to go and get a 10 figure grid reference, as it's putting the entrance slightly off (easily fixed)
2) my second section "llanyleftplan" hasn't come out at all except the pillar I put in (which i think it put in the correct place!)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CmlZ5BvzfduvOk2y-6DmISEskY_tQI6F&usp=sharing

Do I need to edit some walls to make them line up better, I think they are overlapping too much?

Offline Swallowneck

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 01:14:21 pm »
Let me see your files and I will advise.
This is why we said we would offer mentoring going forward. No point doing it the hard way.

N.

Online alastairgott

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 01:24:59 pm »
Uploaded to dropbox under new file "Mentoring projects" :)


Just trying to snag the issues while it's small scale, I now know why we should use Camel case!

Offline Swallowneck

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 03:15:00 pm »
DB files edited.

For the benefit of others.


Tick mark on pillar wall line should face into passage.
Wall line should have option -outside in.

Pdf output is quite resiliant to errors and broken rules so may render correctly but kml and loch files need everthing to be correct otherwise you get some very strange results. I wasted a lot of my life working this one out.

Read https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/tips for an explination

The Therion Wiki is the No1 resource for therioneers so make good use of it. Also register with the Therion mailing list and use the archive as this is full of information as well.

Not sure about your passage joins they look wrong to me but as I did not survey them and there are multiple passages near the joins I am not sure how they should look. Easy to sort once that is clear though.

CamelCase is the way forward and will save you loads of time chasing down missmatching file names and titles. Use it and stick to it. Everybody should use it as a matter of course.

Nice to see you joining multiple surveys from the off, great stuff. Now lets see the X sections and an elevation.

Offline Swallowneck

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 04:57:32 pm »
Sorry could not resist. I joined the passage as I see it. Only had to adjust the wall ends to be a little nearer the correct position and they joined automatically. You could of course use the line id (Hard way) or give the line end point a more identifiable and meaningfull name i.e LlanyLeftSP1Line1Start (best way) or just call it FredStart (easy way) and use the join command in your main .th to save messing around with line ends untill they join automatically. Tick end of line is Start, node at the other end is End. To be honest I rarely use this method because once you get the hang of it joining scraps in different surveys is pretty quick especially is you stick to the rule of joining scraps in simple passage and not junctions.  Check it out in the Wiki.
 
Another good source of Therion info is the BCA data archive, http://cave-registry.org.uk/ you can pinch loads of solutions, configs and layout files here. No point re-inventing the wheel. Chedder Catchment is the place to look, you will also see that your file structure is very similar to theirs, I think it is better that we all work in the same way as it makes life much easier teaching people. I have seen some very complicated ways of running Therion just recently, there were some advantages to it but I found it all a bit mind blowing.

Offline Swallowneck

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 05:09:41 pm »
Oh, and whilst i'm at it here is another tip.
When surveying a cave and you come to a branch put a shot up the branch. If using Pocket Topo use the start here comand and PT will automatically give that branch station a new number sequence. Draw some walls up to your branch station. Then continue along your main passage using the continue here comand and PT will continue with the station numbers where it left off. You now have an identifiable junction and finish with an open passage not just a hole in a wall which at times can be confusing and sometimes seems to bugger up the output.

Online alastairgott

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 06:12:23 pm »
Thank you Swallowneck, I've got to go back and complete it now...

It's complicated going on spec and surveying as you go. I did have the old survey with me, but left it at the entrance, so was going in "blind". It adds a level of difficulty, especially as I thought that "llanyleft" would be blind after a few metres. Therefore I was keen to keep it away from the main drag.

On the second junction, I did head the warning, and truncated llanyleft before the black space that became llanybigcham, but is actually just the left hand side of shaft chamber.


I'll get more consistent, I promise!


Ps. You knew the problem before you even looked  :) ;)

Offline moorebooks

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 02:31:08 pm »

I've started a Therion project today, I'm guessing it won't be a large one. As it's not a large cave (but does have some intricacies), but I've made a good start today.


As I say work in progress and I don't know when i'll be back. but still part way complete. in comparison to an original. http://www.ucet.org.uk/~ucet9504/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&Itemid=191&catid=21&id=865#32381




I believe I got just past burial chamber, so some loops to connect and some bits at the end to join on.


For the record llanmynech Ogof  is not a cave but a Roman Copper Mine, recent studies have actually found stone hammers and parts are now thought to be bronze age - but it is definitely not a cave

Mike

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 03:09:15 pm »
Sorry Mike, I was impressed by the lack of dead stacks, as I was going around I was warming to the direct translation of Ogof. Ok, yes there were a few, but they were definitely smaller than what I've seen in Derbyshire.

Apparently people who lead trips in there can bore the socks of people with the amount of Information about the place. I believe they try not to though!

Offline moorebooks

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 07:46:59 pm »
Sorry Mike, I was impressed by the lack of dead stacks, as I was going around I was warming to the direct translation of Ogof. Ok, yes there were a few, but they were definitely smaller than what I've seen in Derbyshire.

Apparently people who lead trips in there can bore the socks of people with the amount of Information about the place. I believe they try not to though!

I am surprised anyone would tell you that much about the place other than names of locations, the 19th Century shaft is probably the biggest give away that it was mined. We did try to dig down but was frankly too hard and probably a Victorian scam for investors  We suspected that most of the deads were taken outside as part of that scam although there is the long crawl which has a bed of boulders and could be back filling as is found on the figure 8  crawl. Doubt I'd getmy thigh though nowadays but did it once when I was 16 . The Romans would almost certainly have used slave labour, hence the minimal size of passage  between chambers. The different size  shape of level indicates probably the Bronze age to the more squarer Roman working.

As for the name there wasn't really one it was named in the very early 60's by the club members Ogof meaning cave for want of  better name and Llanymynech name of the border town and hill. I guess we would be more precise with greater knowledge nowadays. I just checked with our Founder member who did the original survey  and is in his 80's to confirm this was the case.

Carreggopher workings were named after the location on the hill with a farm there has that name . The more modern 19th Century level just round the corner was simply  named the winze series as the end leads up into what was assumed to be a Roman Winze  but again may have been earlier workings that have been widened. There has been so much landscaping by the Golf Club that anything more than speculation would be difficult to determine. Sorry if its boring but need to be fact rather than fiction
Mike

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Re: Ogof Llanymynech Therion project
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 08:52:55 pm »
No not boring at all, I was just referencing what someone had said to me over the weekend about being able to explain quite a lot to new cavers of all ages.