A curious thing I've noticed about this thread. Many of the people criticising the installation of these steps are also people who in the past have voiced support for CROW access to caves, whereas some of their defenders have taken the opposite view. Is there a point here? Well, maybe - it's that CROW supporters do care about conservation.
There are many caves with metal steps already, so perhaps the only precedent being set is one wherein the steps are really badly installed, such that they look highly likely to snap someone's leg if they fell backwards and it slipped inside the rung as they did so.
But this also brings up the question as to why these stemples are so much worse than the knotted ropes all over the place in that system?
Maybe it demonstrates that people who want freer access to caves
caving_fox: I get the impression that the climb you mention in your favourite cave is only accessible from the bottom, and if you want to gain access to the passage at the top then someone has to climb it somehow.The situation with these new stemples in Easegill is quite different (assuming that they’re where I think they are) in that the top of the pitch is easily accessible from the other direction, and the stemples seem to have been placed in order to facilitate a through trip from one of the other entrances to County Pot.There are bolts at the top of this pitch; it strike me that if someone is so keen on making life easy for themselves (and their instructed parties?????), then the best thing to have done would have been to rig a rope and keep an eye on it (it’s only a short pitch and renewing the rope every few months wouldn’t actually cost much).
There are bolts at the top of this pitch; it strike me that if someone is so keen on making life easy for themselves (and their instructed parties?????), then the best thing to have done would have been to rig a rope and keep an eye on it (it’s only a short pitch and renewing the rope every few months wouldn’t actually cost much).
I do not intend to gather opinion on paying groups, access control gates or historical installations of fixed equipment elsewhere. And its not about scaffold or elitism.I started this thread to gather people's views on the metal steps recently installed in the Dales. Thanks to those that responded so far.It seems the online caving community active here is generally of the opinion that unsolicited via ferrata style step installation in the Dales is undesirable. Consensus by those who know this site also seems to be that installation of steps here was unnecessary.To add context to those unfamiliar with the site, the climb can be easily reached from above via the Trident Series. This allows a rope or ladder to be rigged from above, using the new IC anchors.When approaching from below, the lowest IC anchor is reachable BEFORE starting the climb, as shown by the yellow-suited caver in the photo. so a protecting rope or steps could be put in i think
The installer, when i mentioned this to him, felt that they provide convenience of an upward through trip without needing to pre-rig or rely on a fixed rope.
Can you explain in more detail why they were installed? Is the installer aware of the objections to the similar installations in KMC? Are the two cases connected and if so in what way?