Author Topic: Bolt drivers  (Read 567 times)

Offline mrodoc

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
    • Peter Glanvill's Webpage
Bolt drivers
« on: April 14, 2019, 12:11:31 pm »
Since the advent of cordless drills bolt driving by hand must be a dying art. Does anybody use a hand held bolt driver now? I have been in situations where using a cordless drill would have been impossible eg treating water in Pridhamsleigh Cavern whilst hammering in bolts to hang kit. So perhaps cave divers are the only ones to use them now.

Online Ian Ball

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 609
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 12:22:46 pm »
For temporary bolt placement, I suspect the concrete screws tested by Mr Wilson are the way forward.  I've no comment on hand bolt placement popularity though.

 Self-tapping concrete screws: their selection, testing and use. By Simon Wilson.

Offline Oceanrower

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 12:30:37 pm »
But they still require a hole to be drilled. They're not truly self-tapping.

I suspect mrodoc means more like a rawldrill.

https://verticalarchaeology.com/2016/04/26/rawl-hand-drills/

Offline Wolfo

  • DIY Maniac
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • ArgeKH
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 12:39:27 pm »
I still use a Petzl Rocpec with a 4-flute Hilti drill for hand drilling, pretty lightweight.
2-4 bolts drilled by hand are not a big deal, so an old piton hammer, a few bolts/concrete screws and the Rocpec are allways in the vertical gear pack.
Lower Saxony - Harz Mountain Area - Germany

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • Wind-up merchant and general pain in the arse!
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 01:20:40 pm »
But they still require a hole to be drilled. They're not truly self-tapping.

I suspect mrodoc means more like a rawldrill.

https://verticalarchaeology.com/2016/04/26/rawl-hand-drills/

Concrete screws do require a hole drilling - They are not self drilling

But they are self tapping.

Offline MarkS

  • Global Moderator
  • forum star
  • *****
  • Posts: 641
  • BBPC, YCC
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 03:12:17 pm »
We hand bolted on a couple of expeditions to Montenegro within the last 10 years. We had no electricity supply, we were very restricted on the weight of equipment we could take, and we didn't have any deep leads at the time. One of our main discoveries was hand-bolted down to about -300 m.

I also ended up placing one by hand in China when the other teams had nicked the drills for their leads!

Offline andrewmc

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
  • EUSS, BEC, YSS, prov. SWCC...
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2019, 03:17:07 pm »
Not caving, but I believe all bolts in Yosemite are hand-drilled (and there are plenty on the big walls)...

Offline Wolfo

  • DIY Maniac
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • ArgeKH
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2019, 07:07:01 pm »
Not caving, but I believe all bolts in Yosemite are hand-drilled (and there are plenty on the big walls)...

You're right, as power drills are prohibited at many US climbing spots.
Lower Saxony - Harz Mountain Area - Germany

Offline PeteHall

  • Global Moderator
  • forum star
  • *****
  • Posts: 672
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 10:05:40 pm »
I have placed a number of hand driven spits in recent years (probably less than 10) when the effort of carrying a drill for a single placement has outweighed the effort of hand drilling  :)
The distance between stupidity and genius is measured only by success.

Offline Subpopulus Hibernia

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 143
  • DITCC, Shannon Group
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2019, 10:34:31 pm »
I still use a Petzl Rocpec with a 4-flute Hilti drill for hand drilling, pretty lightweight.
2-4 bolts drilled by hand are not a big deal, so an old piton hammer, a few bolts/concrete screws and the Rocpec are allways in the vertical gear pack.

I recently inherited a Rocpec from a fellow caver and am not really sure how much use it is to me. What diameter and depth holes do you normally drill? I use concrete screws requiring 6mm hole c.70mm deep but this looks like it would far too long, and probably bend the narrow drill bit before reaching the bottom...
Born Salzburg 1691. B.Phil. University of 's-Hertogenbosch 1718. Founder, Totnes. 12th Earl of Rockall. Noted collector of Flemish tablewear. Keeper of Antiquities, Royal Museum of Prussia, 1866-1871. Chairman, British Theosophists Union, 1953-present.

Offline Pitlamp

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4569
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 07:42:59 am »
Yes, I certainly use hand bolting - anywhere particularly wet or when just one or two bolts are needed some distance in from an entrance (i.e. where it's not worth carrying a bulky package containing a battery drill).

Offline Wolfo

  • DIY Maniac
  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • ArgeKH
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 08:09:36 pm »
I recently inherited a Rocpec from a fellow caver and am not really sure how much use it is to me. What diameter and depth holes do you normally drill? I use concrete screws requiring 6mm hole c.70mm deep but this looks like it would far too long, and probably bend the narrow drill bit before reaching the bottom...

Normally 6 or 8mm, but I once even drilled some 18mm holes (fucking slow).
With good drills (not some China no-name-brand-garbage) 70mm @ 6mm diameter is absolutly no problem, I did this many times.
It's important you doesn't force the drill holder (here Rocpec) in any direction - keen it loose in your hand while dilling and rotate 90° regulary after each hit. 4-flute-drills are the best.
Don't tap hard, better more often: taptaptaptaptap, not bang..............bang.................bang.
For me such a hole is about 5-10 minutes work, depending on the rock.
Lower Saxony - Harz Mountain Area - Germany

Online maxf

  • stalker
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
Re: Bolt drivers
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 09:02:39 pm »
I still use a Petzl Rocpec with a 4-flute Hilti drill for hand drilling, pretty lightweight.
2-4 bolts drilled by hand are not a big deal, so an old piton hammer, a few bolts/concrete screws and the Rocpec are allways in the vertical gear pack.

I recently inherited a Rocpec from a fellow caver and am not really sure how much use it is to me. What diameter and depth holes do you normally drill? I use concrete screws requiring 6mm hole c.70mm deep but this looks like it would far too long, and probably bend the narrow drill bit before reaching the bottom...

I think you can get short hilti bits that only have about the right amount of fluted length for bolts. Good for bolting in rifts