Author Topic: Rescue kit/technique  (Read 1203 times)

Offline tracyclimber

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Rescue kit/technique
« on: May 03, 2019, 07:22:32 pm »
What do people carry on an SRT trip for an emergency rescue?  How do you do your rescue?  I just use a jammer from someone's kit.  I've heard the old "pick-off" method isn't taught anymore. Any tips on a simple rescue when someone stuck on the rope?

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2019, 08:09:23 pm »
Depends on scenario. Loads of options.

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2019, 10:34:54 pm »
I carry a crab with a petzl tibloc, a petzl partner, and a dyneema loop that I've tied. This is enough to do an easy counterbalance to get a casualty off their ascenders and onto me, from where I can abseil (even passing rebelays with ease if you steal their stop). If there are no rebelays then you can take the end of the rope with you, tie them into it, rig your stop on it, counterbalance them off their ascenders, then lower them to the floor on your stop!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 10:53:00 pm by aricooperdavis »

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2019, 11:26:12 pm »
Depends? But not a lot you can't do with a knife, a Microtraxion, a Tibloc (preferably the new one), a Partner, 5m of dyneema, a couple of skinny slings and 5 screwgates. Wouldn't necessarily carry all/any of that, of course.

Offline Canary

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2019, 08:31:13 am »
An oval karabiner, a large diameter karabiner (like a dmm boa - but don't get a boa as i suspect the gate isn't upto caving), a pulley, a tibloc, knife, a large cord loop, 5m circumference i think.

I cave on a stop so don't need a microtaxion, but  probably a good idea if you use a simple or rack.

Offline GT

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 11:15:55 am »
If you use 8mm accessory (or Type L) cord like the Beal Antipodes for your footloop cord it's compatible with several jammers and some descending devices, can be very useful for rescues. Traxions are also really handy although be very very careful when using toothed devices, the smallest of dynamic loadings can cause a lot of mischief....


Offline Kenilworth

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2019, 12:52:32 pm »
I don't carry any rescue gear. If you're stuck on rope in an absolute situation I know how to do some absolute things with my normal srt gear. Otherwise it's hope for the best and be prepared to ask for help if needed. I also don't do srt with any inexperienced cavers or strangers.

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2019, 02:04:03 pm »
I don't carry any rescue gear. If you're stuck on rope in an absolute situation I know how to do some absolute things with my normal srt gear.

To expand on that, it's perfectly possible to pull a casualty off their ascenders using a counterbalance with your hand ascender and your tether/footloop rope. I would struggle, as I have an independent footloop as I enjoy the versatility of being able to clip it into bolts to stand in for more complicated rigging. This is why I bring a little crab with some more gear on :)

Offline Mike Hopley

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2019, 06:23:13 pm »
What do people carry on an SRT trip for an emergency rescue?

I carry a knife, a Partner pulley, a Microtraxion with krab, and also my SRT bag is attached to me by an oval screwgate.

The Microtraxion is also useful for derigging longer pitches (maybe 25+ m sections?).

Quote
Any tips on a simple rescue when someone stuck on the rope?

Assuming stuck on ascenders?

Well, the simplest and fastest method is to rig a spare rope, abseil down to them, attach them to you (preferably without any slack), and cut their rope. Sadly you probably won't have a convenient rope handy at the time.

Other methods are hardly simple and require a good deal of practice. The next easiest/fastest is probably the "cutting the rope" method, which isn't quite as terrifying as it sounds but requires some slack on the rope below.

Otherwise you can counterbalance on the long cowstail or footloop (dyneema footloops are good for this). Positioning yourself is awkward, and is much easier if you use a foot ascender to help.

The French "Caving Technical Guide" is a good reference. Practise with someone who doesn't mind your face in their crotch half the time. It could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

In the rare situations where you need to raise them rather than lowering, I'd default to a Spanish Pendulum. Again, a traxion and two or three krabs are useful here.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 06:36:17 pm by Mike Hopley »

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2019, 09:56:07 pm »
I cave on a stop so don't need a microtaxion, but  probably a good idea if you use a simple or rack.

They are very different devices that don't work well in each other's place...

Offline tracyclimber

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2019, 09:16:28 pm »
I have practised for my SRT training courses, but I am never able to get the weight off the other person and onto me, I think its because I'm too light (8 1/2 stone). All the lads in my group are much bigger than me!
The one time we did rescue someone, I went down the shaft to assist from below whislt the lads up top used their jammers to do a crevasse style assited hoist

Offline JoW

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2019, 10:33:39 pm »
I have practised for my SRT training courses, but I am never able to get the weight off the other person and onto me, I think its because I'm too light (8 1/2 stone). All the lads in my group are much bigger than me!
The one time we did rescue someone, I went down the shaft to assist from below whislt the lads up top used their jammers to do a crevasse style assited hoist

Which rescue were you trying to do? All the rescues you need are possible for the lighter person with a little ingenuity...

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2019, 10:58:57 pm »
It really does depend on the circumstances.

Given you had bigger people than yourself in this particular circumstance, then the group uses this to it's advantage.

Remember Rescue is primarily a group activity (if you're going to bring someone out).

It is possible on a simple short one drop pitch to haul someone up by yourself with just a microtraxion and ascender/descender combo. (as long as you know how to use a microtraxion) using one in anger before having familiarised yourself with hauling AND lowering is not a bright idea.

which is why you need both the ascender and descender combo.

with more people, ropes and 2 pulleys you could get someone up two easy simultaneous pitches or a broken pitch with just four people using the Spanish pendulum. (French cave rescue)

other than these methods, you're into the "crevasse style" rescue your mates did for hauling someone to the top of the pitch. Jammers and a belay device are the method used to set up the Z rig.
 If you're just caving and trying to get someone out of a tight spot you'll probably choose to use one line.
but if you're British cave rescue then it's two separate ropes on two separate Z rigs, one as the primary line and one as the backup.

In you're particular case I would potentially take a spare rope (A) long enough for "the pitch", approach the casualty however you can in the circumstances, if the rope below is not attached to a bolt and goes to the floor then use the end dragging on the floor(B).
 take the rope (A or B) and using an acending device (detatched handjammer) place it on the tight line above the casualty (and you) this will act as your abseil rope clip your short and long into their harness and prussik up a little till the slack is out. rig the descender [maybe steal the casualty's] on the abseil rope ensuring that as much of the slack has been taken out as possible. take your croll off and shift your weight onto the descender, test the descender (tiny test).
 ensure you take your handjammer off, now the bit you have to get right, cut the [TIGHT] rope underneath the ascending device that you're going to leave behind, this will drop the casualty onto your harness! so be prepared.

Then you lower both of you carefully to the ground.

There is a book that explains all of this (with pictures) much better than I can. The book is the caving technical guide produced by the SSF.
I'd suggest buying it from Tony Seddon when he's next down your way, Mendip?
 he's there this weekend https://www.starlessriver.com/news/?page_id=200

https://starlessriver.com/shop/books_and_calendars/caving_technical_guide

But get out there with a few friends and try out some techniques, I think the Wessex have a tower that they use for practice? any others down that way?
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2019, 07:41:40 am »
I have practised for my SRT training courses, but I am never able to get the weight off the other person and onto me, I think its because I'm too light (8 1/2 stone). All the lads in my group are much bigger than me!

If you are talking about a mid-rope pick off rescue, as JoW says it should certainly be possible. I saw someone weighing less than you rescue someone who must have been over 20 stone using a counterbalance. I think the only modification they made from a standard set-up was to pass the rope connecting them over a pulley rather than a carabiner.

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2019, 08:03:28 am »
For people significantly heavier than me I have to really remember to stand in the counterbalance and also pull up hard on their central maillon or they don't move an inch. These guys demonstrate it very well (although it's a little overkill as they are working to an IRATA standard so there's an additional redundant system that you have to ignore).


Offline JoW

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2019, 08:34:56 am »
I struggle with the counter balance rescue as many people do, but it's unnecessary to be able to do it. I can rescue someone from any situation by using one of the other rescue techniques...

Offline suddenlywill_

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Re: Rescue kit/technique
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 11:08:21 pm »
In terms of kit;  oval screwgate, tibloc, knife, lightweight  pulley, couple of prusik loops.  The there's the spare krabs and slings that are more rigging kit but have obvious uses in rescue. A mate carries that plus a traxion.

In terms of the rescue; Someone on a ladder or lifelined scramble that couldn't be lowered off for whatever reason I'd either set up a pulley jammer or prusik system (or a mate's traxion)  and have the competent person at the bottom counterbalance them, with me standing over the pitchhead and hauling, or vice versa. Pretty much the same for assisting someone up a ladder, except we'd have all but one person climb before them to help haul. If their leg is stuck in the ladder I'd just chop the soft link rather than trying to get their weight off the ladder to unclip it.

Anything involving pickoffs isn't something I'd like to try for the first time with a badly injured mate stuck on a rope. In most cases I'd prusik down to them, clip them to a cowstail and prusik with them to remove them from any immediate danger like moving water, and then try and prevent/delay harness hang syndrome long enough for cro to get there if they were unconscious by raising their footloop and getting their chest harness tight.

Really need to get out and practice spanish pendulums one of these days