Author Topic: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!  (Read 1893 times)

Offline Pegasus

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Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« on: June 13, 2019, 02:31:41 pm »


Expedition Insurance for UK Cavers
Designed by Cavers for Cavers!


In recent years, cavers travelling abroad on expedition have had to buy their travel insurance from various commercial outlets, however many have had concerns – is cave exploration covered? Age limits? Will the insurer actually pay out??.....

The BCA have been working hard on behalf of their members to solve this problem and are pleased to announce the launch of:

www.bcacavingcover.co.uk

•   An underwritten policy for UK resident cavers caving abroad.
•   Realistic search and rescue cover and age limits
•   ALL expedition members can be insured on one policy (Reassurance for expedition leaders)
•   To cover rescue expenses, even in an area with no local rescue back up.
•   3 options - All expedition members, individual annual or single trip.

How has the above come about?

Howard Jones, BCA Treasurer and Insurance Manager spoke to a number of third parties with similar insurance policies to the one needed by cavers, including the BMC.  He knew from 40 years of experience with business insurance, access to the under writer was key. 

The BCA brokers (Howdens) have been involved with the BMC scheme for a many years working recently with Peter Hayman of P J Hayman & Company who not only have their own scheme (Adventures) but are responsible for the BMC scheme. A number of meetings were held with Howden, Peter and potential underwriters and Howard consulted with Andy Eavis, Nick Williams, and Robin Weare from a BCA perspective plus a number of active expedition cavers. Andy in particular has been heavily involved throughout.

More details:

•   The makeup of the scheme is similar to the BMC scheme - an adventure policy focused on caving but covering other activities too. 
•   A number (14) of different sections have differing claims limits - These include all the normal cover such as cancellation, lost
     passport etc., but most importantly focus on caving and rescue.
•   Cover is open to BCA members resident in the UK.
•   Worldwide cover except Iran and areas where FCO advise no go. Zoning of different regions of the world.
•   Three options: Expedition insurance covering all members (to be encouraged) probable discount for 20 or more members , single
     expedition insurance for Individuals, annual insurance for individuals who takes part in a number of activities in a year.
•   Activities include, mountaineering, skiing, biking etc. 
•   Expedition cover to be flexible until just before departure to allow for changing member details.
•   Definition of search and rescue agreed with BCA.
•   Commercially viable compared to alternatives, especially for exploration with no local rescue team.
•   Available for exploratory and non-exploratory foreign trips.
•   Over 65’s more expensive to cover due to world-wide accident statistics. Cover available up to 74 years of age, beyond that by
    application.
•   Cave diving is included, but only by application. Hopefully over time we can improve this element.


« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 11:50:16 am by Pegasus »

Offline skippy

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2019, 04:52:58 pm »
Shame I got my insurance sorted the other week..I could have got a discount for supplying the publicity shot :-)

Offline AliRoll

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2019, 05:00:45 pm »
This is brilliant news, exactly what we need

Offline Rachel

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2019, 08:15:57 pm »
Excellent work!

Does it also cover under 18s?

Offline Ed

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2019, 08:55:27 pm »
Good work. Looks like it has potential - but..... there is no mention of electronic / tech kit - tablets, phone / laptop / camera etc. Is this just included in the baggage bit?

Are there options to up the limit per item / total for each section?

£500 for ski equipment is a bit low..... skis alone could break that let alone with bindings

Offline Keris82

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2019, 07:32:44 am »
Excellent work!

Does it also cover under 18s?

Yes if you click the link to get a quote and fill out the form

Offline Rob

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2019, 11:58:38 am »
This is awesome news, so much old debate on this forum can now hopefully be irrelevant!   :lol: :clap2:

Strange how the only European country that is not included in the "European" section is Albania, which is also the only country i'm expeditioning to this year... :weep:
The end is where we start....

Offline Alex

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2019, 12:31:53 pm »
This is very good news for our trip next month, I will take a look at this, thanks ! :)
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline darren

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2019, 12:38:16 pm »
The medical questions are more complicated than Showcased.

I pass Snowcard medical conditions without the need to phone the providers.  I would need to phone providers for this insurance.
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Offline Benfool

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2019, 01:17:45 pm »
anybody know how the price compares with an annual snowcard policy to areas without cave rescue?

B

Offline Rachel

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2019, 03:17:08 pm »
I've just had a proper read through the form and it looks as if it's great for people with no medical issues whatsoever, but I'd he turned down on at least 3 grounds  :down:

Offline MarkS

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2019, 03:50:56 pm »
I've just had a proper read through the form and it looks as if it's great for people with no medical issues whatsoever, but I'd he turned down on at least 3 grounds  :down:

The medical exclusions don't seem unusual to me. Or am I missing something?

Offline darren

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 04:15:03 pm »
Snow card medication says "You have a cardiac or respiratory condition for which you take more than 2 prescribed medications"

BCA Medical cover says more than 2 prescribed medications in total
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 04:30:18 pm by darren »
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 04:32:46 pm »
Snow card medication says "You have a cardiac or respiratory condition for which you take more than 2 prescribed medications"

BCA Medical cover says more than 2 prescribed medications in total

But that isn't necessarily an exclusion - it just means you need to call them.

Offline darren

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 07:44:24 pm »
Thanks for pointing that out MarkS.

Then again I didn't say or even suggest it was an exclusion.

It does three things.

Makes me feel like my medical conditions are more serious if I have to go through a special process to be accepted. I like to think I'm the same as everyone else, ringing up reminds me I'm not.

Extra time and effort, extra buggeration.

Extra stress, there is always the chance, however small, that they will add a loading in which case I've waisted my time. Or even worse refuse insurance completely. Nobody ever wants to say yes to the question "have you ever been refused insurance"
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Offline Rachel

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2019, 09:56:10 pm »

[/quote]

The medical exclusions don't seem unusual to me. Or am I missing something?
[/quote]
If you put your details in to get a quote, this pops up -

You will NOT be covered under section 1 - Cancellation or Curtailment Charges, section 2 - Emergency Medical & Other Expenses, section 3 - Hospital Inconvenience Benefit and Section 4 - Personal Accident:

For any trip where at the time of taking out or renewing this insurance you:

A) are waiting for an operation, hospital consultation (other than for regular check-ups for a stable well controlled condition) or other hospital treatment or investigations, or are awaiting the results of any tests or investigations; or
B) have received a terminal prognosis; or
C) travel against the advice of a medical practitioner or where you would have been if you had sought their advice before beginning your trip; or
D) know you will need treatment or consultation at any medical facility during your trip; or
E) are travelling specifically for the purpose of obtaining and/or receiving any elective surgery, procedure or hospital treatment; or
F) are aware of a medical condition for which you have not had a diagnosis; or
G) travel against any health requirements stipulated by the carrier, their handling agents or any other public transport provider.

I clock up three exclusions on A and one on F. The way it reads, it sounds as if someone on a waiting list for routine surgery would be excluded. So if you need a cyst removing or ingrowing toenail fixing, you're out of luck.

Online 2xw

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2019, 10:14:16 pm »
Use snowcard then

Offline darren

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2019, 10:36:47 pm »
I think you mean '' continue to use Snowcard then".

The advertising blurb also says cavers are worried about " Will the insurer actually pay out???....."

Has anyone ever had a problem with Snowcard paying out when the correct category of insurance has been purchased?  I've never been worried about this before because of the recommendations I've been given. Now I'm worried that I should have been worrying and I wasn't.
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Offline Rachel

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2019, 05:22:16 pm »
Has anyone ever had a problem with Snowcard paying out when the correct category of insurance has been purchased?  I've never been worried about this before because of the recommendations I've been given. Now I'm worried that I should have been worrying and I wasn't.

 I know several people who have had good experiences with snowcard. They seem to be incredibly helpful.

Online 2xw

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2019, 01:50:05 pm »
I've just received my quotation from the BCA scheme, and it is significantly (on the order of 30-40%) cheaper than Snowcards price for a single trip single person aged 26-45 with no medical.

Offline Fulk

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2019, 02:16:50 pm »
For what it's worth, here's a little anecdote about travel insurance.

In 2017 my wife and I went to Cuba for a conventional holiday but with the possibility of doing a bit of caving, and we took out travel insurance with a firm called Sports Cover Direct, who covered me (with a modest excess) in spite of my having had open-heart surgery a couple of years previously (and eye surgery about 6 years before that).

In the event, I had a very serious nose-bleed, something that’s never happened to me before or since, either as a child or as an adult . . . at one point I seriously thought that I was going to ‘bleed out’. Anyway, I was hospitalized for two days (a great ‘bolt-on extra’ to our Cuban holiday. The staff were brilliant and well-trained, but the system was obviously strapped for cash – never a gain will I whinge about the NHS!), and ran up a bill – no doubt modest by Western standards – of about £750. But because the hospital was some 80 km from where we were staying, my wife ran up a further bill for taxi fares of ~£120, for which the taxi drivers refused point-blank to give her receipts. So when I made a claim on our travel insurance it was more in hope than expectation that I mentioned the taxi fares in a covering letter; a couple of days later we got a cheque for the full amount, including taxi fares. They deducted the excess, but added on an extra £100 for some reason that I now can’t remember, so they effectively paid out the claim in full . . . which really impressed us.

It maybe wasn’t the cheapest travel insurance . . .but then again, there’s an article in yesterday's Observer about the perils of relying on cheap travel insurance.

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2019, 03:09:21 pm »
Please can I point out that this really is a scheme organised by cavers for cavers so if you have issues such as those raised in this thread (or others) please feed them back to the BCA's Insurance Manager so he can discuss them with the insurer.

Please also be aware that Howard Jones, who took over from me as BCA Insurance Manager late last year, does not frequent this forum so please send him an e-mail to <insurance.manager@british-caving.org.u> to make sure he sees your comments.

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Offline CatM

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2019, 10:03:04 am »


For what it's worth, here's a little anecdote about travel insurance.

In 2017 my wife and I went to Cuba for a conventional holiday but with the possibility of doing a bit of caving, and we took out travel insurance with a firm called Sports Cover Direct......

I've used Sports Cover Direct before, and am just about to book with them again for a via ferrata holiday. I started reading this thinking "Oh no! Time to rethink?" - glad to hear it had a happy ending, and I shall proceed with my booking!

For caving holidays/expeditions I have always used dogtag in the past but am very pleased to see this introduction of a BCA policy. Well done BCA!

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Offline andrewmc

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2019, 05:36:19 pm »
It seems Snowcard have bumped caving up a category - from the 3rd and 4th levels (for caving where there is / is not organized cave rescue, respectively) to the 4th and 5th level.

Anyone know when this happened? It makes it significantly more expensive (helping make the BCA insurance cheaper).

Online Ian P

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Re: Insurance - designed by cavers for cavers!
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2019, 06:41:04 pm »
It seems Snowcard have bumped caving up a category - from the 3rd and 4th levels (for caving where there is / is not organized cave rescue, respectively) to the 4th and 5th level.

Anyone know when this happened? It makes it significantly more expensive (helping make the BCA insurance cheaper).

Changed 1st of June. They said they will honour policy’s taken out before.
It caught me out, I thought I had booked the wrong policy ! I have upgraded to the next level, just to be sure.