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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by Pitlamp on Today at 10:30:49 am »
I should have added to the above "Doesn't that promote the thin end of a potentially ugly wedge?".
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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by Pitlamp on Today at 10:29:51 am »
offer him a trespass fee. They may well accept.

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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by Rhys on Today at 10:19:16 am »
To reiterate my previous posts: how feasible it is to take 'community action' and undertake a controlled trespass generating the aforementioned test case.

Why might this not be so smart, .... [?]


Lots of reasons.

Another one is that you could spend lots of time, money and effort getting to court expecting that the judge will once and for all decide whether caving is "open-air" or not. However, you can't force the court to make that call. If they can, they'll spot some other simpler issue or technicality and decide the case on that basis or throw it out without considering the question you want answering. It's got you nowhere.
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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by Simon Wilson on Today at 09:59:23 am »
Go caving with a couple quid in your pocket.

If "caught" by an unhappy farmer ...

But that just doesn't happen any more, not on CRoW land anyway which is what we're talking about.
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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by Rob on Today at 09:53:52 am »
Go caving with a couple quid in your pocket.

If "caught" by an unhappy farmer offer him a trespass fee. They may well accept.

If they refuse then I've heard they have less of a leg to stand on in court (not that it would go that way anyway)...
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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by Simon Wilson on Today at 09:40:29 am »
To reiterate my previous posts: how feasible it is to take 'community action' and undertake a controlled trespass generating the aforementioned test case.

Why might this not be so smart, .... [?]


Lots of reasons.

Most landowners have accepted people walking about on their land with or without caving gear and take very little notice of us. We can already go caving under CRoW because landowners appear to treat as just like any other visitor. A landowner would be extremely unlikely to take anybody to court because they would have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

For them to take somebody to court they would have to be able to prove trespass and that would probably mean that the person would had to have caused significant damage.

A "controlled trespass" would (I think) be a criminal offense under CRoW whether or not you were caving and also would be criminal without CRoW so would not be a good idea.

We have very good relations with landowners and we want to continue with them. Many small CRoW landowners are on first name terms with cavers including CNCC officers and are very amenable and welcoming to visitors including cavers. Some of the owners of the larger estates are not bothered about cavers on their land and might well welcome DEFRA changing their mind on (their silly interpretation of) CRoW. There are a very small number of estates the owners of which are very difficult to contact and we don't know what they think. However, I know that a lot of cavers are caving on CRoW land without being challenged in the way that cavers were challenged in a few places before CRoW. CRoW has already vastly improved access for cavers.

I think the best course of action is to carry on not rocking the boat but quietly and firmly letting people know that we think CRoW covers caving and intend to carry on campaigning for DEFRA to change their minds. In the mean time carry on caving on CRoW land as we are doing.

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Film & Photography / Re: Best Yorkshire Caving Photograph to date?
« Last post by MJenkinson on Today at 08:22:42 am »
Beautiful photo.  I can just imagine the loneliness of ascending that ladder.

However..having never been a fan of ladders..that picture also conjures the emotion of "forrrrrrrrrrrget it" and "Thank god for SRT".
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BCA / Re: bca meeting 25/3 /2017
« Last post by cavemanmike on Today at 07:28:21 am »
Topimp
I like your attitude and find it encouraging that the youth of our small community taking such a pro- active part :clap2: :clap2:
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Film & Photography / Re: Best Yorkshire Caving Photograph to date?
« Last post by RobinGriffiths on Yesterday at 11:26:56 pm »
Yes brilliant photo. The fact it's on a ladder rather than rope, and you can make out the individual rungs gradually fading into nothingness as you follow them up adds a great sense of scale. And you've got some sedimentary layers in the middle giving way to a thick fluted bed down the bottom, bringing a sense of resolution.
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Film & Photography / Re: Best Yorkshire Caving Photograph to date?
« Last post by Pegasus on Yesterday at 10:42:54 pm »
Thanks to Blackshiver for pointing this thread out to me  :thumbsup:

It's a great shot  :)
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