Author Topic: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment  (Read 3155 times)

Online Ian Adams

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Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« on: February 09, 2016, 11:14:02 am »
Hi,

I had a club trip to Rhosydd Mine on Saturday (6th Feb) and met another club coming through from Croesor. They have reported that there is damage to the equipment which is likely to impede other clubs visiting.

There is no single club that takes responsibility for the equipment in Croesor but I have posted this to the local mine forum too (plenty of the frequenters there know the mine well and someone may be able to effect repairs).

In the interim, here is the damage report for anyone thinking about a trip (copied and pasted);


Hi Ian,
 
I was one of the party that you met on Saturday afternoon, in Rhosydd mine. We experienced a problem on the first Tyrolean that we need to make others aware of. Hopefully you're well connected with local miner explorers and will therefore be able to pass this on to those who need to know. 
 
When we arrived at the side of the 1st lake we tried to retrieve the fixed pulley, using the return cord. However, about 40% of the way across there was a 30cm strand of cable pointing directly upward. This completely prevented the pulley from returning. Luckily one of the two fixed cheek pulleys we were carrying, was wide enough to fit over this wider gauge wire. We also had a roll of blue insulation tape with us. I went out to the blockage and used tape at 10cm intervals to tie the strand down to the main wire. When I say strand, it was actually more like 4mm in diameter. Whilst the end was taped down, it was possible for the fixed pulley to travel carefully in both directions, across the breakage. We obviously weighted the pulley so that it return more smoothly.
 
We were lucky that we had a suitable pulley and had some tape. Otherwise we would have had to abort the through trip and prusik back up the pitches. Obviously the insulation tape is a very temporary fix and will not last for many more crossings.
 
I'm not sure who we should tell about this, but we need to make some effort to inform those involved in managing the fixed aids, so as to minimise the impact on the next explorers.
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Offline Long Drop

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2016, 05:44:35 pm »
I travelled through on Friday and also had an issue with the fixed aids... I was third person onto the 'bridge of death' and my weight (less than 13 stone) had only just gone onto the wire when one of the two through-bolts securing the tyrolean to the wall at the 'Croesor end' popped out of the wall, pulling a chunky bit of slate off with it.  This was somewhat alarming (especially for the person stood next to it), although there was still one bolt holding that end of the wire and a cow's tail also securing me.

We bodged up a repair using a spare rope and a large boulder, so that the wire now has two anchors again at the Croesor end.  However, the angles of loading on the anchors are now less than ideal and the anchors for the wire are no longer independent of the anchors for the safety rope for cow's tails. 

We were also surprised / disappointed to find that the bolt that had popped was at best a 70mm long 10mm non-stainless; the sort of thing you might use for expeditionary bolting or putting up shelves, not for heavily used fixed aids.  Looking more closely at some of the other rigging this standard of bolting seems to be the norm.

Anyone going through this route does have to be aware and accept that they are trusting their life to a load of rusty old crap!



Offline Pete K

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2016, 06:07:31 pm »
I've recently been testing quite a few anchors in slate and there is a high occurrence of slippage and even failure in all expansion anchor types. I think that as the anchor is repeatedly loaded over its life the rock around it is pulverised to dust and once this begins the anchor is doomed to eventual failure. I've pulled 2 expansion type bolts out with only my hands this month.
I am personally avoiding and would recommend anyone avoid using expansion anchors for long term placements in slate. Resin bolts, placed by a correctly trained individual are a far better long term solution.

Offline Antwan

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2016, 06:27:31 pm »
Under pressure slate can release oils, granted its only slight but thats why trad climbing with cams is also a little bit cringworthy for me to watch

Offline GT

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2016, 08:17:58 pm »
I'm amazed the cable traverse have lasted so long in there without there being a significant issue. All the vibrations of people travelling down those cables in bound to have effected the anchors (I suspect a resin anchor would also be vulnerable although likely to lesser extent).

I"ve seen some shocking performance of 10mm expansion anchors in slate, big resin anchors has to be the way to go, and lots of them!!

Offline paul

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 07:05:39 pm »
Does anyone know what the latest news on this is?
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Offline Danswift

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2016, 10:50:46 am »
I've got a good cordless sds and would even buy some fixings if anyone wants a hand... Only trouble is I don't know SRT,  have explored both mines from either end and have always wondered whats in the SRT areas...worth a shot  :tease:

Offline Wayland Smith

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2016, 12:15:06 pm »
I've got a good cordless sds and would even buy some fixings if anyone wants a hand... Only trouble is I don't know SRT,  have explored both mines from either end and have always wondered whats in the SRT areas...worth a shot  :tease:
Not to dampen your enthusiasm, very well done for that. but
This mine has a  throughput and use by lots of people without the knowledge or experience to assess the rigging.
Any replacement should be done to the very highest standard under the guidance of trained people with experience in Slate mines.
The problem I suspect is that no one person or organisation will officially put their name to owning the equipment in here.
The liability and risk is very high.
Also the steel cable requires will probably not be cheap, unless "sponsored" by someone.

Offline Danswift

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2016, 12:35:55 pm »
Not to dampen your enthusiasm, very well done for that. but
This mine has a  throughput and use by lots of people without the knowledge or experience to assess the rigging.
Any replacement should be done to the very highest standard under the guidance of trained people with experience in Slate mines.
The problem I suspect is that no one person or organisation will officially put their name to owning the equipment in here.
The liability and risk is very high.
Also the steel cable requires will probably not be cheap, unless "sponsored" by someone.

That is totally understandable,  it's reassuring to see a high level of care serms to be given to the equipment and fixings in the mine,  it will hopefully be me clipped into it in the future  ;)

I was offering my services as a labourer more than anything. 

Dan

Offline Speleotron

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 09:18:01 pm »
It needs P bolting, once and for all, expansion bolts are rubbish in slate.
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Offline Cripplecreeker

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2016, 10:26:57 pm »
The problem with expansion bolts in slate has been known about in climbing circles for a while:  https://www.thebmc.co.uk/warning-issued-over-slate-bolts

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 02:25:37 pm »
i would normally agree with p bolting but have you seen the size and length of that cable, i;, wondering if several 300 mm stainless steel threaded bars resined in  should be used to help spread the load .
just a thought

Offline robjones

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 02:39:34 pm »
Does anyone know what the latest news on this is?

See the thread on the same subject on aditnow for up to date bad news on the equipment.

Offline matthewjc

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2016, 08:34:47 am »
Morning, i cant find the thread on adit now - has anyone been through recently..? Cheers Matt

Offline NewStuff

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2016, 08:53:28 am »
Morning, i cant find the thread on adit now - has anyone been through recently..? Cheers Matt


http://www.aditnow.co.uk/community/viewtopic.aspx?t=11471

Last state of play was everything was OK, bridge and zipline repaired/replaced.

However , with the CRTT, you should *always* take your own ropes/boats, just in case. You do get the odd set of idiots down there, and if they damage something, they may not report it.
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Offline matthewjc

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2016, 09:01:26 am »
Ah, found it now ive woken up... Repairs effected it seems, still good to hear from any recent trips.. Cheers Matt

Offline paulc

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2016, 06:41:44 pm »
Just a heads up, you will need to take your own dinghy because the Canadian canoe in the chamber of horrors is not just waterlogged but also stuck midway between Creosor and Rhosydd, my mate went earlier and and found it in this position, they tried to free it but the paracord is stuck fast, they were sweating on a callout so had to leave it as they found it.

Offline GT

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2016, 10:56:59 pm »
Fixed today

Offline paulc

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2016, 11:39:30 pm »
Thanks for the reply GT, was it snagged or what?

Offline Bratchley

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2017, 08:52:29 pm »
Don't mean to bring to life an old thread for no reason, I would just like to find out if anyone has any recent info in regards to the state of things in there as I may head in this weekend?

I.e. Is the industrial pulley likely to be in there still and is the Canadian canoe still alive?

Cheers,
Josh
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Offline robjones

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Re: Croesor Mine Warning - Damaged equipment
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 10:37:43 pm »
Folks on the aditnow website are usually very up to date on this mine's fixed aids and there is a current thread on this topic.