A discussion has been festering over the last few minutes on a club Facebook page where a newer member is looking to buy a cheap Pantin lookalike online.

Link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Left-Foot-Ascender-Riser-Rock-Climbing-Mountaineering-Equipment-Black/32662527473.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.57.iVX7Yz&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_4_10065_10130_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_201_10531_10099_10530_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10106_10143_10526_10529_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_130_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10124%2Csearchweb201603_1%2Cafswitch_1%2CppcSwitch_7_ppcChannel%2Csingle_sort_0_total_tranpro_desc&btsid=f1ea8400-ffa6-48b5-a95a-256bde7b908a&algo_expid=11f65f64-58ee-4482-9573-d0dff8fbbf82-6&algo_pvid=11f65f64-58ee-4482-9573-d0dff8fbbf82

The cost savings are significant, and provided the device possesses basic functionality, they have considered that the risk is low as the device is a non-critical component of their SRT system.

Personally, I am happy with this evaluation and would buy one if I felt the need for a foot jammer.

Included in the discussion has been the lack of support for UK caving equipment suppliers, and reputable manufacturers. The lack of proper certification has also been considered, but negated from a safety point of view by the 'non-critical component' evaluation as above.

The fact that Petzl state that the Pantin "is not PPE", and the technical datasheets do not detail any conformance to standards also supports this idea (presumably there are no requirements laid out in the standards governing other jammers, although I cannot currently access my BSOL subscription to check).

I thought I would extend the question to the wider UK caving audience, mostly for my own curiosity.

What factors have not been considered, and what is your personal take on this?

I'm sure this has been discussed on here before...

I would agree that a Pantin-type device is not PPE, is not and should not be used as part of the safety chain.

The rope is, though...

(personally I wouldn't buy it because it will be rubbish)

When it comes to buying tools and equipment it is worth considering the old saying...

Buy cheap - Buy twice

You say "provided the device possesses basic functionality".  It may look simple but a lot of pretty small things are critical to the device working as you would wish.  If it doesn't then you'll probably buy a Pantin as well. 

...and that doesn't even touch on the arguments about supporting cheap copy manufacturers with no R&R, product testing, customer service etc

Certainly that phrase exists for a reason, and I practice that philosophy wherever I can afford to.

In part I suppose one consideration is how often you intend to use the tool. Buy a cheap one, if you use it a lot, but the better one.

There is a recurring complaint on the supplier's page about the spring being very stiff, and we know what issues that could cause at the bottom of a pitch.

It's a gamble, the cheap one may work just fine of course.

And as a budding engineer I definitely aim to support companies that make quality products in ethical ways. But sometimes cost is the priority.

All hypothetical for me personally as I'm yet to really feel the need for a foot jammer, we'll see how that changes .

I've read some previous discussion on here about off brand chest and hand jammers, and clearly as that is PPE the situation is markedly different. Hence posting about this as it lies in a little bit of a grey area.

Thanks for the input guys. Not sure what the lad in question is going to do but let's see. Rest assured he's bought everything else from Tony and H&H and has access to some lovely UKC donations as mentioned in a recent trip report (thanks!).

All the best,
TPM

We had a similar discussion in our club a few months ago and a mate ended up buying a cheap one, not sure which website he got it from but it was identical to the one you linked.
The cam had a large crack running through it which appeared to have been epoxied back together by the manufacturer and the spring was incredibly stiff, I found it almost impossible to use in a training session as the rope refused to run through, although that may be my technique.
If you do get a dodgy one i guess they're so cheap you can get another and still save money but i'd not bother.

Looks like they have just used the cam from a chest ascender or hand jammer, rather than a purposly designed one for the needs of the product