Cave database APIs (Split from "New CNCC website" topic)

RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
Yes, it is very good. What would be nice though, would be if cave list and details were accessible via an api for mashup purposes. Although whether the CNCC would see that as loss of control of data would be a consideration.

Robin
 
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
Cavematt said:
I'm afraid I have no idea what an 'api' or 'mashup' is but will mention this to our webmaster who is a million times more technical than me.  :-\

I don't think we have any specific concerns regarding loss of data control, although it is important that everything works from the same database so that when any details are updated (e.g. cave access details), this is propegated everywhere and we don't have to manually update details in multiple locations as this would inevitably lead to inconsistancies and errors.
Click to expand...

For example, say someone wanted to produce a lidar map using the OpenGov map web service, and overlay cave locations onto it, if such an api was available, then it would always get populated from your database, with no out of date information hanging around anywhere.

In fact, it would be really good if all the UK cave registries implemented such an api.

Robin
 
Simon Wilson

Simon Wilson

New member
RobinGriffiths said:
Cavematt said:
I'm afraid I have no idea what an 'api' or 'mashup' is but will mention this to our webmaster who is a million times more technical than me.  :-\

I don't think we have any specific concerns regarding loss of data control, although it is important that everything works from the same database so that when any details are updated (e.g. cave access details), this is propegated everywhere and we don't have to manually update details in multiple locations as this would inevitably lead to inconsistancies and errors.
Click to expand...

For example, say someone wanted to produce a lidar map using the OpenGov map web service, and overlay cave locations onto it, if such an api was available, then it would always get populated from your database, with no out of date information hanging around anywhere.

In fact, it would be really good if all the UK cave registries implemented such an api.

Robin
Click to expand...

YES. I have been suggesting this for ages. There is a lot of good information out there and the CNCC website would be a good place to bring it together for the North.
 
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
gardouth said:
@RobinGriffiths (and Simon Wilson)
An API should be possible, or maybe just a read-only database user. I will look into it.

@GT
The topos have been re-drawn using Adobe Illustrator with the originals as a base image. When you open the PDF you will also see the walls and ropes are on separate layers so you can turn them off if you want a more simplistic topo.
Click to expand...

Simple api would be good.

GetList (return all names + grid ref (+ id maybe))
and GetDetail (return cave info for specific id)

Be interesting whether api could be standardised (OpenCave api maybe!!) should other regional Cave Registries etc. make data available via an api.

Robin
 
GarDouth

GarDouth

Administrator
@RobinGriffiths
Please can you tell me your reasons for wanting an API and what data you would want. There are a number of liability issues with letting data be public as it *could* be displayed out of context. Cave details without warnings for example. There could be possible scope for limited data availability.
 
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
gardouth said:
@RobinGriffiths
Please can you tell me your reasons for wanting an API and what data you would want. There are a number of liability issues with letting data be public as it *could* be displayed out of context. Cave details without warnings for example. There could be possible scope for limited data availability.
Click to expand...

Cave Name, Description or Summary, and a url to the cave's information on the host's website would suffice. It's all about making data available so that people can, in the words of someone else, combine data sources in an innovative and imaginative manner.
 
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
Obviously, the more information available though an api, the greater the scope to be creative with it!

How nice would it be to have common apis for CNCC, DCA, CSCC, CCC +a mining one?

Dump it all on a map, put a lidar layer on, put a geology layer on. Maybe river catchment. Stuff made available under the Open Gov scheme is great, why shouldn't the caving world do the same?

Robin
 
C

complex

Member
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
Hi Complex,

Haven't seen the DCA one before. Seen the other two but didn't realise the BDCC one was driven by a MCRA api. I'll have a look tonight.

Robin

 
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
The BDCC site appears to be driven by a static xml data file for cave sites. This is not to say that that isn't refreshed server side by an api.
The MCRA does have a client accessible api, returning xml, but by default it only returns sites within a 500m radius. The search is also server side driven.

Maybe this needs splitting out, or maybe it's run it's course?

Robin
 
Cookie

Cookie

New member
An API for the registries would be an excellent idea. I have been meaning to do it for the CSCC Access Data for years, ever since Bill Chadwick put together his brilliant Mendip Cave Map. It is all a matter of time and priorities.

gardouth said:
@RobinGriffiths
Please can you tell me your reasons for wanting an API and what data you would want. There are a number of liability issues with letting data be public as it *could* be displayed out of context. Cave details without warnings for example. There could be possible scope for limited data availability.
Click to expand...

The CSCC data is available under these conditions:

The CSCC Access Information is made freely available subject to the following conditions:

1.  That a ?Copyright ? CSCC Year. This data is available from www.cscc.org.uk? notice is displayed.
2.  That a date is displayed showing how current the data is.
3.  That access information can be displayed without location information, but location information cannot be displayed without access information.
4.  That digital data supplied by the CSCC must not be re-distributed.
5.  By downloading the CSCC Access Guide XML File you show that you accept these conditions.

No 3 is the novel one.

I include a summary of the conditions in the description field which means there is a fair chance they will be observed since it will take an effort to strip them out.

Code: 
return '{ "response": "let's do it" }';
 
Cookie

Cookie

New member
RobinGriffiths

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
Hi Dave, including access information and/or warnings in the description/summary is a very good idea and should mitigate against a description being taken out of context. As you say, this can also support the case when you only want to make the access information available in the description, but I guess the actual lonlat/grid ref would also need to be nullable for such sites.

Robin
 
tras2

tras2

New member
Hi,

Last year I started a website in my spare time - https://www.thecavedb.com - with an aim of getting together a list of caves and their locations.  It was more of a 'could I do this' challenge to myself.

I'm by no means a web developer, but I do tinker in my spare time which (due to the recent arrival of a mini-caver), I've had less of this year!  I've not (until now) made it known to anyone as I've been playing with ideas on the layout, and I've also been conscious of the need to get cave data which is allowed.  For 'draft 1' I got UK cave location data from grottocentre.  My thought would be that additional information about a cave (e.g. access rights) would be a reference/link to the source websites.  The new CNCC website made me realise that I need to put a licence notice of some sort on the page (Grottocentre's data is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported licence so I think I need to put a similar notice up).

There is an API (https://www.thecavedb.com/api) which the website itself uses to get its cave data (a developer friend one said eat your own dogfood!) - but it's a firm version '0' as it hasn't settled down yet due to the changing nature of the front-end, but sounds like it's what

I suppose I'm at a bit of a cross roads with it.  Should I continue and add more caves & features, or are there other projects/sites already doing this which I'm not aware of and I should stop?  I don't want to step on anyone else's wellies if there are better folk doing something already.

I appreciate any comments/thoughts

Stuart
 
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