Happy New Year!

I'm planning a trip down Nettle to do Crumble and Beza.

I've not been down Nettle for almost 30 years and I didn't rig it back then either.

I'm trying to establish accurate rope lengths required as the DCA rigging guide and an old CCPC rigging guide differ somewhat.

DCA rope lengths for the trip are:- 35,35,20,5,50 + 20 to the bottom of 'the Shakes'

CCPC rope lengths for the same trip are:- 28,35,16,4,40,46 + 18

Basically I'm trying to find out an accurate rope length to the re-belay below 'the Sentry Box' (35 or 28?) and what's needed for Crumble/Beza (50 or 40+46?!)

Past experience shows that the DCA guide proves to be quite generous with rope lenghts, but there's a major difference between the two guides for Crumble/Beza.

Any info would be appreciated

I've rigged Nettle quite a few times, and have always used the CCPC rigging guide as my source of information, largely because I am involved in measuring the ropes when Crewe produce an update, and also because the DCA guide only aims to report the location of DCA-installed P hangers - it doesn't usually mention any spits or through bolts, even if these exist (same policy as CNCC).

The CCPC lengths certainly work (for me, but your knots and rigging style might make a difference), and you will note that:-
a) there are more deviations available on Beza than are shown in the DCA guide (there's a lot of rub-potential);
b) it is possible to split Beza at a Y-hang (through bolts, not P hangers) near the bridge.

Splitting Beza is a good idea as it is a long, twisty pitch and two shorter pitches will speed things up, and possibly make life easier for tired cavers on their way up (especially if the air quality isn't so good).

For the entrance pitch the CCPC schematic shows the way I think most people rig the pitch, using all rebelays, (despite the CCPC guide mentioning a short deviation at the Sentry Box it is shown as a rebelay!).
But I am sure the first rope will be short at 28m so I would take a 35m.
I always use a 65m rope that nicely does the whole pitch and the short crawl to the top of the Gully with a few metres spare.

A 16m rope will be OK for the gulley.

I don't think the very short rope before the top of Crumble is needed, but I suppose it doesn't take up much space in a bag.

I can't see how the 50m rope apparently given in the DCA guide for Crumble & Beza can be right - the old Caves of the Peak District gave ladder lengths of 23m for Crumble and 46m for Beza, then a handline to the bottom of the slope.
So the 50 + 20  to the bottom must be wrong.

On the other hand the CCPC guide is confused about these pitches.
I think the CCPC topo is correct, and I would certainly do as Al says and use all available deviations for the reasons he gives.
Unfortunately the list of equipment in the CCPC guide does not quite correspond with the topo (although the total length is the same) and is confusing because "Crumble - Beza" is printed a line too low.
The 20m rope is for the last hole in the Far Flats.

I would go with 40, 46 & 18 for Crumble & Beza.

Thanks Al and Chocolate Fireguard, the info is much appreciated.

I'm trying to work out if we've got enough rope in the right sort of lengths to do the trip.

It does appear that the DCA rigging topo is missing the rope to rig Crumble.

If anyone has further info please post what you know.

This anomaly has already been pointed out by someone else recently.

The topo on the DCA website has now been amended to give 70m as the total length for Crumble/Beza, plus the extra 20 for the last slope.  This should allow for all the variations in rigging.

If there are queries about any of the topos on the DCA website, please contact the DCA Secretary and we'll look into it and amend if necessary.  You can email  secretary [at] thedCA.org.uk  or PM me via UKcaving.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.

So..

...me and a mate did Nettle last night down to the bottom of Beza. Here are the rope lengths we used with relevant comments:-

Entrance Pitch 36m - could probably have got away with 35m if I had been a bit more economical in the rigging

Bottle Pitch 31m - Long enough, but it only reached the first P-bolt at the top of Grand Canyon Pitch. A few more metres wouldn't go amiss.

Grand Canyon Pitch 18m - Just long enough. Would have been spot on from the Y-hang, but had to rig it back to the first P-Bolt (see above comment)

5m Pitch - Easy scramble, didn't need a rope.

Crumble 40m - This was my mates rope so I can't guarantee the length is spot on - Anyway to the Beza Y-hang we had a few metres spare.

Beza 46m - This is bang on for this pitch if you rig the through-bolted rebelay part way down.

In Summary. Rope lengths as detailed in the DCA rigging guide are fine apart from Crumble/Beza. I reckon even the new updated version showing a requirement for a 70m rope would still leave you a bit short, even if you were very econonical in your rigging.

I usually rig the entrance (The Narrows & Bottle Pitch) with a single 70m rope which always proves enough - but then again I don't normally rig it to the top of Grand Canyon, I just rig that on a completely separate rope.

Can't speak for Crumble and Beza - not been rigging down there yet.