After what became a short trip to Eldon Hole this weekend, we have realised that some things that seem very self explanatory are not....

basically when it came to rigging the pull through we hit a small snag, we couldn't get the rope through the bolt at the top, after countless attempts, different knots and threading attempts we had no choice but to give up.

Ive got this far having never had to rig a pull through, but I don't want to spend the rest of my days avoiding any cave that has one so can anyone explain what we were doing wrong or is there some sort of technique to getting the rope through, what does the bolt at the top even look like, clearly its not going to be a p hanger, but is it big enough to get a knot through it?

EDIT: I have of course consulted Google and he seems to have no idea

I've had similar problems in the past. The method we used in the end was thinner diameter rope and electrical tape to keep the loose tails of rope from catching in the top krabs.

However, whilst this worked - I'm not sure its a foolproof method and would like to know other options!

didn't even think of that, even had electrical tape in the car 

Retri said:

what does the bolt at the top even look like, clearly its not going to be a p hanger, but is it big enough to get a knot through it?

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It would usually be a P-hanger, but the knot does not pull through it, as you seem to suggest you were trying...

Simply speaking, you tie your knot (alpine butterfly) in the middle of your rope, feed one end through 2 hangers and put a stopper knot on the end (you will abseil down this side). Now feed the rope through until you get to your alpine butterfly and clip it around the rope you have just dropped down with a steel carabiner. Drop the remaining rope tail down and abseil down the 1st rope (the one without the knot in).

Once your whole party is down, remove the stopper know from your abseil rope and pull down on the other rope. The alpine butterfly and crab at the top will slide down to you while the abseil rope goes up and drops back.

If you're in any way unsure, practice this somewhere safe and above ground before committing yourself to a multi-pitch pull-through trip! 

Also, make sure to carry a spare rope as it is not unheard of for a rope to jam up during a pull-through and need recovering from above later, otherwise you could find yourself stuck without the rope you need to carry on down and no way back up!

I can relate my experience, but don't know what is 'standard'.
At the pull-through into High Country, Reservoir Hole the eye bolt isn't particularly big, certainly not big enough for a knot in the climbing rope.
We used a bootlace to tie the climbing rope to the pull through....
Even that isn't totally straightforward as the end of the climbing rope tends to catch on the eye bolt.

After many attempts, the way I got it to work was use the bootlace to tie a prussic knot as close to the end of the rope as possible and knot the other end of the bootlace around the pull-through a couple of inches away. It drags the end of climbing rope through the eye bolt. The bootlace is hard to tie onto the pull through without slipping, but the knot making the pull through rope into a loop provides excellent traction.
A bit of experimentation found an inside-out prussic knot gave a better pull along the line of the rope than a standard prussic.
Hope this makes sense

I've used this twice.
First time we were about to give up and go home, when this method worked.
Second time, let the others have a go for a bit then offered to try my trick. Worked first attempt

I'm told other pull through pitches have bigger eye bolts which would make things a lot easier, but this method ought to work on pull throughs giving trouble.

For rigging the up-pitch into Eldon's Damocles Rift attach the in-situ polyprop to the rope about 300mm from its end with a clove hitch and then stick a few half hitches in as well with the last one as close to the end of the rope as possible. Keep some tension on the rope as you pull it up and you should have no problems feeding the rope through the ring at the top. I've never had a problem rigging it this way.

Mark

We managed to rig the Eldon hole pull though, despite none of us having done a pull through "up" before. Done plenty of downs as described Petehall, but Eldon is a pull up. I did not rig it but, I think all we did was wrap it round the rope a few times. It fell off the first time but with another wrap or two we got it up there and back down without much issues.

Its quite an experience coming back down as unlike a normal pull through rope its not obvious from the top which one is the right rope, in the end I just gave them both a good 'yank' and went down the one I could pull up. A knot was then put in at the top to make this more obvious, which had to be removed by the last person down.

I have never come across these pull ups in Yorkshire before, but they seem to be quite common in the Peak. There is another in Oxlow mine for example.

Alex said:

Eldon is a pull up.

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That all makes a lot more sense! Never come across a pull-up in a cave before...

What was the reason for rigging it like this in the first place? Did in-situ ropes get encrusted too quickly? Those up pitches are two of my personal favourites, and the view of the Main Chamber from Miller's Chamber is wonderful.

Here's a shot of someone just getting started on the pull-up - the blue polyprop is just discernible as the two extremes of the triangle, with the climbing ropes more central. As I remember the rope is threaded up the left side, and down the right to an upside-down Y-hang at floor level:

I have done it like Alex suggested before, wrapping the rope around the twine (or visa versa) and then pulling it up.

It never goes very smooth, or at least that's what I've found.

I normally "untwist" the pull up rope a bit (assuming it is hawser laid, which it often is) and insert the end of the main rope between the strands. The pull up rope will grip the main rope and then just to make sure it's secure I wrap a bit of insulation tape around it as well. This means there is no knot whatsoever, just a slight fattening of the rope. This has never been an issue on any of the pull ups I have done...

I did the pull through in Eldon having never done one before.

I did a half hitch round a knot in the polyprop. Worked for me.


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I have usually got away with a clove hitch around the rope.