My fairly liable FX3 is probably on the way out. When it works well it gives 10 hours of quite reasonable light on main beam. battery connector sometimes iffy. The replacement needs to be longer lasting and brighter!

Options from the vast array of threads I've been purusing all day include:

the scurion
the sten
the Nova 3
the duo 14led
ledcaving
Kirby
bisun - diy mod option
retro - diy mod option

others?

Anyone want to give opinions on the light they use?

I'm inlikely to need the brightness of the Scurion - but definetly want a brighter more reliable and longer lasting light than my current FX3.

So far I've not been impressed with what I've seen of the connections of Nova battery pack.

Hi,

keep in mind that some of the light you've mentioned use a magnetic switch. In case you do cave survey you should avoid these.
I find the duo overpriced, especially if you have a look inside, unless you have already the case you should not think of that option (just my opinion).

Regards
Wolf

PS: I just like the wide beam of the scurion, but enough advertisement... 

Hi
Wookey has been doing some physical light output comparisons on many of the lights you listed......
He may be a good person to contact if your interested in the brightness compared to each other.....
Will pm you his email.....
Carm

If it helps, I've had a Nova 2 for some time (and been very happy with it) and also a Nova 3, but having caved this summer with someone who has a Scurion, both my Nova's are now for sale (see the For Sale section) 'cos I've ordered a Scurion.

There's very good peripheral light from the Nova, but it was the powerful spot (as well as good peripheral light) that converted me to the Scurion.

Cheers,

Glenn

I have had a duo 14LED for 9 months now. I find it fine for the stuff I do, which is mostly dry mines, but it has also served me well in the odd wet cave. The light output is perfectly OK for seeing where I am going and for looking around.

I would like to make a general observation about much brighter lamps, and something those who enthuse about them might like to bear in mind. Dep wanted to show us a new very bright lamp a month or so back, and he stood in a passage facing us. In comparison with his normal LED lamp (similar output to my Duo) the whole passage seemed much darker to me, although to him the light was brighter. By facing us, he made our pupils contract, thus rendering the whole passage less well illuminated. He was better off, everyone else was not. In old-fashioned money, he was dazzling us and therefore making the cave more hazardous for us. If we all had really bright lights I think the dazzle factor would be just as bad, or worse as more people would be using over-bright lights. We see the same thing happening with car headlights, and it concerns me. So by all means buy a really bright light, but think about whether you really do need a lamp far brighter than necessary to find your way around, and one that will dazzle others causing them night-blindness, and probably giving them headaches if it goes on all the time.

I think what is important is that a lamp should be bright enough to make your own progress safe, and it should last a long time on a single charge.

Brighter does not equate to safer or better.

I use the old 5 watt Nova, and (so far) haven't had any connection issues. The wide spread is brilliant, but one thing it could do without is the flashing to make the battery go further - it's ok in a dry passage, but once there's falling water around it can really do your head in.

I wouldn't ever go back to a belt mounted battery, head mounted is the way forward!

AH

You can cave with a Scurion on one of the lowest settings, and just use the brighter settings to look at specific things - eg whether that water filled crawl looks interesting a bit further ahead.

I like the battery life indicator - if it's 3 or more I probably don't need to charge it for the next trip - and the secure switch off, so it can't get jolted on on your way to the cave.

I used to use a duo14 and was very happy with its overall performance for a plastic light running on duracells.

the ability to switch output is imo essential, as has been pointed out you can dazzle others and make it difficult for them.

this year i upgrade my light to a sten, and i'm realy impressed with its performance, in terms of longevity (i went for the gbfo battery) weight (it is that light!) and light output.

if you are thinking af blowing a wodge of cash on a light, go for a sten (adover)

Peter Burgess said:

I have had a duo 14LED for 9 months now. I find it fine for the stuff I do, which is mostly dry mines, but it has also served me well in the odd wet cave. The light output is perfectly OK for seeing where I am going and for looking around.

I would like to make a general observation about much brighter lamps, and something those who enthuse about them might like to bear in mind. Dep wanted to show us a new very bright lamp a month or so back, and he stood in a passage facing us. In comparison with his normal LED lamp (similar output to my Duo) the whole passage seemed much darker to me, although to him the light was brighter. By facing us, he made our pupils contract, thus rendering the whole passage less well illuminated. He was better off, everyone else was not. In old-fashioned money, he was dazzling us and therefore making the cave more hazardous for us. If we all had really bright lights I think the dazzle factor would be just as bad, or worse as more people would be using over-bright lights. We see the same thing happening with car headlights, and it concerns me. So by all means buy a really bright light, but think about whether you really do need a lamp far brighter than necessary to find your way around, and one that will dazzle others causing them night-blindness, and probably giving them headaches if it goes on all the time.

I think what is important is that a lamp should be bright enough to make your own progress safe, and it should last a long time on a single charge.

Brighter does not equate to safer or better.

Click to expand...

I find my Oldham plenty bright enough unless I'm with other people with brighter lights, then I struggle to see with my own light at moments when light from other peoples lamps aren't also illuminating my way. If I'm on my own underground then my light seems bright and perfectly sufficient......everyone back to Oldhams please

I have a Bison conversion for an FX2 and for the money it is simply fantastic. The light output is really good with a spot and a flood setting, both of which I still struggle to comprehend are LEDs! I have not done any full discharge testing but know that 15 hrs plus is in there and the battery is already 22 years old! OK so it is not helmet mounted but its still small and light enough not to worry about too much.

In the latest 'Spelerpes' (the magazine of the VVS) there was a write-up comparison of most of the above lamps. The article is in Dutch. In the latest 'Regards' (the magazine of the UBS) there was an article about the Scurion  in French.
But if wanted I can make some scans and e-mail them.

The remark about the magnetic switch (Nova and Sten) is true for the "old Fashion" compass. But when using a Sap or distoX there is
no risk  (Also see topic about the DistoX)

BR

Dagobert L'Ecluse (Sc Avalon)

Btw In our club several persons use different lights going from home-made leds over petzl duo over nova to stens and scurion.
      And IMHO I would go for a sten or scurion (if you can afford it) and if you dive the nova is the only solution. The Petzl duo
      has proven his quality but the technic is out-dated (multi-led). I'm still using a Petzl Duo 14 led were I replaced the halogon
      with a 1W Lumiled. At the end of the year I'm thinking of replacing my light by a Sten. (My wife is travelling to the states
      then so she can bring it with her what makes the Sten affordable)

Leclused said:

The Petzl duo
      has proven his quality but the technic is out-dated (multi-led). I'm still using a Petzl Duo 14 led were I replaced the halogon
      with a 1W Lumiled.

Click to expand...

I buy what I can afford. I bought a Duo because it was the best of the range available that I could afford. If all I could afford was candles, I'd buy candles. Once single-LED lamps are down to a price that I would be comfortable paying, then I'll probably buy one, but only after my current lamp has stopped working. As with everything, there are many acceptable choices, whether out-dated or not. In a way, I hope cavers in the future will point at my lamp and say "Are you still using one of those?" because it will tell me that I made a good choice, the lamp will have stood the test of time, and I will not have found the need to replace it. Time will tell.

Peter Burgess said:

In old-fashioned money, he was dazzling us and therefore making the cave more hazardous for us. If we all had really bright lights I think the dazzle factor would be just as bad, or worse as more people would be using over-bright lights.

Click to expand...

Good point. I recently upraded all 16 of my centre lights to Princeton Tec Corona's (8LED). With 16 of these looking at you as you talk to the kids you are blinded, so much so that I now make them run on either dim mode or 6LED mode, both of which are perfectly bright enough, especially as there are 16 in the cave at once!

The Duo 14 is good but mine is not waterproof, and the switching system is very fragile. I won't be buying another. Princeton Tec apex for me next - I have bought 2 of these for colleagues and they seem very good so far.

Burt said:

The Duo 14 is good but mine is not waterproof, and the switching system is very fragile. I won't be buying another. Princeton Tec apex for me next - I have bought 2 of these for colleagues and they seem very good so far.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I'll bear that in mind and try to look after it!

Must say that I have a helmet-mounted 14 LED duo with a 1w LED main and I find it fantastic.

It is easily bright enough to cave on, weighs next to nothing, requires almost no ongoing maintenance, lasts for ever on a set of batteries (once its switched itself to 'last for ever but not very bright' mode) and using AAs is a real advantage - 4 or even 8 spares take up no space.

It is certainly the best caving lamp I've ever owned (and I've had a lot over the past 20+ years), offering the best compromise of brightness, weight, longetivity and robustness.  I know some people feel that they aren't very well constructed but I've had no problem with mine.

In addition i have a Tesco 3W cree strapped to the side of my helmet for poking up avens and down shafts etc. It is also bright enough for photography and video.  I know some people think that this isn't reliable enough either but mine seems to do pretty well and has never leaked.

I have to agree with Peter on the brigtness thing - it seems to be the fashion at the monent to walk around with a light that will melt rock all the time.  Caving with people with such lights can, frankly, be a pain in the arse.  A bright light is great to switch on when you need it but for every day caving I don't think its necessary.

One final comment:

The trend towards LEDs is great and I've succumed but I sometimes miss the warm freindly light of my Oldham, or any incandessant bulb - LEDs are a bit harsh and cold.

I know everyone will think I'm wrong as lighting does seem to be a subject that polarises opinion but that's my view for what its worth.

Phil

Peter Burgess said:

Burt said:

The Duo 14 is good but mine is not waterproof, and the switching system is very fragile. I won't be buying another. Princeton Tec apex for me next - I have bought 2 of these for colleagues and they seem very good so far.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up. I'll bear that in mind and try to look after it!

Click to expand...

It is true that the Duo is not waterproof. I have some leakage from time to time in the battery box. But most of the time my duo remains waterproof even when doing a lot of water passages. In one of our projects several ex siphons need to be taken and usaly the battery box and/or the lamp are underwater at some stage 

The below link showing me exiting the ex S6 in our project with my Duo.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_0b-MGxpLuvE/SFaixBHaJKI/AAAAAAAABS8/aqgqnel_i2k/s1600-h/DSC03029.JPG


BR

Dagobert

phil.gregson said:

I sometimes miss the warm freindly light of my Oldham, or any incandessant bulb - LEDs are a bit harsh and cold.

I know everyone will think I'm wrong

Click to expand...

not everyone phil, I too miss the 'warmness' of the halogen lights.

I recently switched from a Speleotehcnics FX-Ion with 7LED to a Scurion and the difference is amazing. Great spread light, amazing battery life and a very very powerful beam should you need it. It took a couple of trips to set lighting levels to my personal preference but you can program it to do that which is a very nice feature. The whole thing has a very reassuring build quality without the dodgy battery connections which seems a quintessential part of every speleotechnics system around. I've caved with a lot of people with Bisuns which are a very nice light and superb for the money but I certainly wouldn't trade my Scurion for anything else I've seen on the Market including the Stenlight.

SamT said:

not everyone phil, I too miss the 'warmness' of the halogen lights.

Click to expand...

I felt the same way when I first switched to LEDs, but I find that I'm so used to the white light of LEDs now that light from incandescent bulbs seems brown in comparison.  I think that given enough time you can get used to any colour of illumination - years ago I used to use red light quite a lot (as an amateur astronomer - it doesn't destroy your night vision) and got quite accustomed to it.  I wouldn't recommend red light for caving though - last year I was at an underground camp and was using a headtorch to light my way to the toilet.  The headtorch had both red and white LEDs, and I found that when the batteries got low the white LEDs were too dim to find my way, but red seemed much brighter - except I found it almost impossible to judge depth or distance.

Duncan

Pete said:

I've caved with a lot of people with Bisuns which are a very nice light and superb for the money but I certainly wouldn't trade my Scurion for anything else I've seen on the Market including the Stenlight.

Click to expand...

I agree.
Bisun is very good value for money and a very nice bit of kit.
Scurion is in a class of its own, amazing.
when I have seen stenlights in use I have been underwhelmed. not good enough to be worth ?190, either pay the extra 80 and get a scurion or save 100+ and go for a bisun or raptor.

EDIT; I have also heard rumors of people getting the scurion with the optional UV led replaced with either a amber or 'warm white' led to change the feel of the close up illumination, possibly something to consider.

Charlie