We don't talk about the 15+ other entrances :mad:

Need to be investing in wine, and have members provide 2 bottles of roja to help sustain the BCA balance per annum 😛 The banks can't take that away from us.

Hauling it up southern streamway as it slowly leaks on you is always the fun part :ROFLMAO:

Cleaned out the shit container for the aggy camp :sick:

Beautiful survey, congratulations to the surveyors + those which drew up the survey - it's a bloody good effort.

Appreciate the reply, I'm aware of how insurance works. Again, my issue (which nobody ever seems to comment on in this thread but rather assume I'm anti-BCA and prefer to engage on a spiel against viewpoints I never had) is forcing BCA members to have said insurance AND creating a status quo of...

My main worry with enforcing insurance to be a member of the BCA (or accessing caves - yes I'm aware landowners may stipulate it, but this is only because we have created this status quo) is what happens when a claim finally occurs (or two) - leading to the BCA being unable to pay the excess and...

I'm not the OP. This thread was summoned out of thin over a joke I made in memes (thanks for the post anyway). To state for what feels like the 18th time now, I am not anti-BCA; I am pro-BCA. I'm simply anti-forcing-people-to-pay-for-insurance, that's it. I'm a member of the BCA and always will...

CRoW would solve this entire thread (and problems associated with the BCA) tbh.

In order to go caving, especially in the region which interests me, I require keys to gates. Said gates are managed by a club, and in order to be a member of the club I have to be a member of the BCA (and the BCA stipulate the rates). I just wanted a key, not the whole bureaucratic mess which is...

I'm not against the BCA, I'm against forcing people to be apart of the BCA (and to pay for a particular service they don't want) to do caving - this just creates an over centralisation and creates a power dynamic (which is why this conversation even spawned). I'm also against making insurance...

Appreciate the response, it has clarified the nuances of the policy :)

The quote BCA provides is irrelevant if the policy document (on which the insurance is stipulated and is what is used in court) does not provide said quote. Again, I could be wrong. My primary fear is that if we base all our landowner interactions on the requirement of having insurance - when...

The insurance document says otherwise (from my understanding) - in that it indemnifies the caver not the landowner. I'm likely wrong, would love perspective from those who originally formulated the agreement :)

Fortunately we aren't forced to join the BMC, so as a concept - it probably holds up better with regards to safeguarding the individual.

Just a little snippet below (the rest is similar in wording) - though I could be wrong as I don't specialise in law. The policy insures each member of the BCA as an active caver, not the landowner, against court action?

Why is the BCA still raising membership prices when there is a significant amount still left in its coffers? Insurance should be a choice, not forced (otherwise have we not just beholden ourselves to commercial providers which you have so quoted as doom and gloom). If we impose BCA membership...

Not sure, a registry would be useful. Personally I haven't seen BCA insurance being required to access the caves in Llangatwg. BCA membership being required to access sites, from what I understand, has been a thing of status quo rather than necessity in order to maintain good-will relations with...

Appreciate the response, it was insightful. "more malign organisations will fill the gap." Only if cavers decide to subscribe to said organisation. Suppose the situation in which the BCA randomly dissolves leaving a power vacuum. A select few cavers would likely create their own organisation...

Moderator comment: Posts from Memes thread in Idle Chat ( https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/caving-memes.29373/page-25 ) moved to here as requested. Comment aside for sake of curiosity. Do we NEED a BCA and thus by extension does somebody HAVE to fulfil the role?