Great Douk - In Wet Weather?

[RJames]

I'm thinking about doing a trip through Great Douk (with a friend/novice), possibly this weekend (17th-18th Feb), but maybe later in the year. I've been looking through this forum trying to work out under what conditions it would not be safe to enter/attempt the through trip. I've seen somewhere on this forum that it is an okay cave in wet weather, but presumably there is a level of wetness/bad weather where it would be wise not to enter? I've been there once before (~10 years ago, but haven't caved much since) and remember the crawl at the end, exiting through the hole in the roof at Middle Washfold - this would be my main concern if it was raining, or had been raining.

The current forecast for Saturday morning looks dry but there is a big band of heavy rain shown arriving late afternoon. I'm thinking about going in Saturday morning and being back home by lunchtime - but obviously I'll keep an eye on the forecast.

One suggestion I have seen for dubious weather is entering at the waterfall and going as far as the Beehive before retracing back to the waterfall. Then re-entering from the top at Middle Washfold and doing the route in reverse (giving more certainty about weather before going through the crawl section). But I'd prefer to go all the way through from the Waterfall entrance to Middle Washfold if possible.

How often does the section between the waterfall and the Beehive/Giant's hand become a "no go"?

I would appreciate any advice you may have, thanks

 

[Steve Clark]

Looking at the forecast now, it will be fine on Saturday morning.

Check closer to the time and have a look at the rainfall radar to get an idea what's going on.

As I understand it there is no complex drainage or odd delayed flooding going on with Great Douk, it's just the risk of a big downpour on the flank of Inglebrough in the hours before, or whilst you're in the cave, running on the surface over the impervious layers above and entering through the various drainage routes at the upstream end.

(You can avoid the actual waterfall climb by using the bedding up on the right (true left of the stream). There is a small path up the embankment.)

 

[kay]

What's the beehive? I haven't come across that name before

 

[pwhole]

Here's the entrance. And another formation that I doubt is called The Beehive - anyone know? Is that the Great Douk?

 

[RJames]

What's the beehive? I haven't come across that name before

This blog gives a detail description of the route with photos, which I was using for reference. The "beehive" is mentioned and photographed about halfway through the blog. Although, I have no idea if the names used in the blog are "official".

A Three Peaks Up and Under

Great Douk Cave Everyone's Favourite First Underground Adventure 'Oooooh - I don't like confined spaces!' comes the oft-repeated cr...

oldfieldslimestone.blogspot.com

 

[RJames]

Here's the entrance. And another formation that I doubt is called The Beehive - anyone know? Is that the Great Douk?

View attachment 18458

View attachment 18459

This blog refers to that formation as the "Giant's hand"

A Three Peaks Up and Under

Great Douk Cave Everyone's Favourite First Underground Adventure 'Oooooh - I don't like confined spaces!' comes the oft-repeated cr...

oldfieldslimestone.blogspot.com

 

[Speleofish]

Strange euphemism... I could understand 'Giant's Nose' if you were being victorian and puritanical.

 

[kay]

This blog refers to that formation as the "Giant's hand" Looks more like a Pig's Trotter

Thanks for the reference to the Beehive. No. I think Oldfield has added a few names of his own. However, he's done a fine job of documenting the horizontal caves of the area. For Great Douk I also like the CNCC leaflet of what to see where, downloadable from https://cncc.org.uk/publications/ It's down at the bottom left.

 

[RJames]

This blog refers to that formation as the "Giant's hand" Looks more like a Pig's Trotter

Thanks for the reference to the Beehive. No. I think Oldfield has added a few names of his own. However, he's done a fine job of documenting the horizontal caves of the area. For Great Douk I also like the CNCC leaflet of what to see where, downloadable from https://cncc.org.uk/publications/ It's down at the bottom left.

Yes, agreed, looks more like a pig's trotter. Thanks for the link to the leaflet, I've just read it - very interesting and provides a great overview.

 

[pwhole]

It doesn't look like a pig's trotter to me, but you'd certainly need a giant hand to operate it!

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Water levels are high in the Dales at the moment, I wouldn't want to be in the bedding plane towards the end of Great Douk at the moment!
We have a 'Beehive' in Ingleborough Cave that looks somewhat similar to the one in Great Douk, but slightly better (I'm biased, of course).
Love Oldfield's blog. He's covered so many niche parts of the Dales in the area around my home, and is often my primary source of information for adventures!

 

[Pitlamp]

I have to agree with our hungry trog:

 

[RJames]

Water levels are high in the Dales at the moment, I wouldn't want to be in the bedding plane towards the end of Great Douk at the moment!
We have a 'Beehive' in Ingleborough Cave that looks somewhat similar to the one in Great Douk, but slightly better (I'm biased, of course).
Love Oldfield's blog. He's covered so many niche parts of the Dales in the area around my home, and is often my primary source of information for adventures!

Thanks for your message. Yes, the crawl towards the end of Great Douk was my main concern. However, I'd still consider the trip worthwhile even if we only did the first section of Great Duke and then returned back out of the Waterfall entrance. If i managed to catch I relatively dry spell at the weekend would you also advise avoiding even the beginning section - or was it specifically the last crawl that you were cautioning against?

My back up plan is a gentle walk in the dales and a brief visit to Yordas

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Thanks for your message. Yes, the crawl towards the end of Great Douk was my main concern. However, I'd still consider the trip worthwhile even if we only did the first section of Great Duke and then returned back out of the Waterfall entrance. If i managed to catch I relatively dry spell at the weekend would you also advise avoiding even the beginning section - or was it specifically the last crawl that you were cautioning against?

My back up plan is a gentle walk in the dales and a brief visit to Yordas

I was just referring to the last section. It's a horrid flat out crawl in water even in dry conditions, necessary to complete the through trip but I wouldn't bother with it if that weren't the case. You won't be missing much! The middle bit where there's a skylight and you can look up at all the ferns is my favourite bit, and that will be fine in moderate water conditions. Just use your judgment, if the water is a bit high but manageable you'll be fine to go for an explore, but be wary of oncoming rain causing a further rise in water levels.
Are you local to the Dales? Happy to help with other suggestions of things to do if not

 

[RJames]

I was just referring to the last section. It's a horrid flat out crawl in water even in dry conditions, necessary to complete the through trip but I wouldn't bother with it if that weren't the case. You won't be missing much! The middle bit where there's a skylight and you can look up at all the ferns is my favourite bit, and that will be fine in moderate water conditions. Just use your judgment, if the water is a bit high but manageable you'll be fine to go for an explore, but be wary of oncoming rain causing a further rise in water levels.
Are you local to the Dales? Happy to help with other suggestions of things to do if not

Thanks, I appreciate the follow up. I actually quite enjoyed the crawl last time I did it (over 10 years ago). I was with a caving instructor friend then and they made the decisions about the weather. As it's me making the decisions this time I've just been trying to swat up on potential conditions as much as possible. Your post is really helpful, thanks, I'll see what it's like if/when I'm there.

I'm not local (anymore) - but I used to live in the dales for a couple of years, so now I'm revisiting old times

 

[rm128]

My back up plan is a gentle walk in the dales and a brief visit to Yordas

Yordas was impressive last night. The main chamber was a swimming pool. The Middle Entrance was a raging torrent. The 2nd pitch was a bit moist, to say the least. We didn’t get much further.

Very impressive in such conditions, but I wouldn’t suggest you do more than look from a safe distance.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Yordas was impressive last night. The main chamber was a swimming pool. The Middle Entrance was a raging torrent. The 2nd pitch was a bit moist, to say the least. We didn’t get much further.

Very impressive in such conditions, but I wouldn’t suggest you do more than look from a safe distance.

I've seen the water rising by 1 foot per 10 minutes in Yordas main chamber, which sumped shortly after. I would be very careful going there in wet conditions! Although I do like going for a swim there when it is in swimming pool conditions, nice and close to the van for getting warm afterwards and the foam makes it feel like a bath

 

[Fulk]

I once went to Yordas Cave after a lot of heavy rain (I think it was the day after the night that CRO had abandoned a rescue attempt in Simpson's Pot on account of the flood . . . to my knowledge the only time this has ever happened. The guys were OK, as they had climbed to the high-level passage above Slit Pot).

There was a strong stream coming right down the 'Yordas dry valley' that continued through what was left of the sections of wall on both sides of the road, which had been smashed down by the flood at its peak. Yordas Cave was acting as a resurgence.

 

[Ian Ball]

Likely to be more common if what we're led to believe is correct.

 

[pwhole]

The middle bit where there's a skylight and you can look up at all the ferns is my favourite bit, and that will be fine in moderate water conditions.

Here you go