SpaceHopper said:
The inspector will not say... hmmm but I must take the statisical record into account? A loose poised flake is a hazard whether it is on an unsafe building or underground. On a building site such hazards would clearly be deemed unsafe by society, by the state and by the workers.
I see your point but it's almost like looking at air travel and saying "it flies at 30,000ft and goes 500mph, if an engine fails everyone will die!"
Yes, it's potentially lethal, but statistically it's not actually that dangerous. Probably not a great analogy really....
SpaceHopper said:
Caving is dangerous. You cannot deny it.
I'm not saying that it *can* be dangerous, but I just don't think most caving is particularly dangerous, providing reasonable precautions are taken.
SpaceHopper said:
I've said I am not familiar with the cave in question. I have taken small children on mountains where probably 20 people have died since 1972. So what!
It depends whether you do all in your power to ensure their safety and to not lead them in an irresponsible manner.
SpaceHopper said:
Society should stop expecting such garentees for these activities.
This is a different issue, and I agree.
SpaceHopper said:
And you should stop trying to give the impression that these activites can ever be safe.
Caving can be very safe. That's my opinion.
SpaceHopper said:
Fall in line behind the NCA statement and stop reading the daily mail.
Ha ha ha

Come on, that's ridiculous, I've never bought a tabloid in my life!
SpaceHopper said:
Bubba overall you seem to be implying that a guide or instructor can garentee safety. What I am saying is that is just not possible.
No, I've never said that at all. I'm saying that a guide should do all in their power to ensure the safety of their party, and act in a responsible manner. In the situation being discussed, I don't think that that was the case.
SpaceHopper said:
For sure a guide could behave negligently and deserve to be punished or pay compensation. Conversly just because an accident happens it does not follow that the guide was negligent.
In many cases I would agree.