Was taking the lamp off my helmet this evening and the helmet literally shattered into pieces where it had become so brittle!

quite a sobering thing to happen, at first I was p155ed off but now just glad I didn't use it and have any impact on it.

looking for a new helmet now.........

Had you drilled a lot of holes in it?

Out of interest, could you tell us the model and age please?

Realised that was a bit of a silly post really without giving facts too  :spank:

It was an ecrin roc, unsure of age and as I've been out of the caving game for 13 years don't know when this style helmet came into use, I know it's over 2 years old and don't know how it has been stored.



I bought this helmet secondhand off ebay which in restrospect wasn't the wisest thing to do with PPE, however I never realised the 'never use secondhand' rule/guidelines should apply to a helmet after all it's only a bit of plastic huh?

The ebay listing said "This kit has been used about 30 times for vertical caving and underground slate quarry exploration in Snowdonia so has not been down many tight squeezes and head banging passageways so is in good condition with no damage except from a few scuffs expected from this type of use."

Now, when I got out of the caving game I used an FX-5, always wanted carbide so saw this as an opportunity to buy something that was relatively expensive back in the day, I didn't do my research and subsequently found that carbide is dead - long live the LED!

I faffed around trying to get the carbide generator to work, it did at first but the jets needed cleaning etc etc, once it was all cleaned out the generator wasn't working as I expected but the burner was...... anyway short story long, I thought I might as well give up on the carbide and embrace LEDs. I purchased a duo and thought I'd mount it on the ecrin roc so put the generator up for sale for ?15 inc postage - thought it was probably worth that for spares or a project.

I very carefully drilled the rivets but was VERY surprised that the plastic literally snapped in my fingers, once I had slight damage the helmet was essentially useless so investigated further by applying no more pressure than I would to open a tin of beans and the plastic shattered piece by piece (like an easter egg).

The only holes drilled in it were 3 at the front (2 for mounting the Aceteo and one for the back up light cable) and 2 at the back for mounting the battery box.

I'm never ever going to buy a secondhand helmet again!

Inside the helmet there may well be a sticker with the date of manufacture, or if memory serves with Petzl, a moulded indent with similar detail.

Is this failure of material just around the area you drilled or is it everywhere?

I once had a Caving Supplies protex that was "past"  the 10 year safety recommendation. We took to trying to smash it with a sledgehammer. Eventually it flexed around the rim but we couldn't actually get it to break.

Failure is everywhere, I'll have a look tonight to see if there is a manufacturers date stamp and post the results.

If I had taken a sledgehammer to this it would have shattered into a million pieces! 

Trying to find an upside to your woes... At least you weren't in it.

It's not all bad, you're right at least I wasn't in it or worse, loaned it to a family member of friend perhaps....

Sometimes it's good to see how these things do fail with age and that it's not some devious ploy by Petzl to make you buy more kit......

I would estimate that style of helmet to be over 20 years old. I haven't seen one of that shape for quite some time.

Really 

Chances are it was probably third or fourth hand by the time I got it it then?

just goes to show what happens when you don't know the history of something

Possibly only one owner, it doesn't look heavily used or scraped.

Definitely have a look for a date stamp or sticker and let us know if you find one. Might be a series of numbers or could be an imprint which looks like a clock face.

A friend had one of those red helmets when I went to Uni in 1993. Another friend bought a newer white version of it soon after; probably 1994. So I'd date the red one to late 80s or early 90s. I have one of the later white ones in my garage which belongs to my wife, I'll see if there's a stamp on that one this evening.

I was browsing on my phone earlier and didn't see the picture. Is it definitely an Ecrin Roc? My climbing background goes past thirty years and not sure it is an Ecrin though will take your word for it and I don't claim to know every type of helmet. If it is an Ecrin than I had one which would be recognisable as the modern version in about 1996/7 so your helmet would probably be older than that. 

Is it worth a claim via eBay?

Hard to tell from the picture what the material is, but I had an Edelrid lid from the early '90s which was a carbon based material. These definitely splintered/shattered when smashed.

Damo, it unfortunatley sounds like you bought a lemon. However you have obviously learned from your misfortune with both the helmet and light and you were't hurt. (does this sound like a school report? - unintentional!)

I've got a spare spelio head unit which you can have, and you can fit one of Biff's excellent Omni inserts in to make a cost effective bright LED lamp if you want it.

Here's an image showing that your type of helmet was in use by at least 1991. It's a black and white photo and not so clear, unfortunately, but I'm certain it's the same type. I'm not entirely sure that the name Ecrin was applied to this model, but it may have been - I'm not as much of a helmet geek as it may appear, honest.

What made you think yours was "over 2 years old", if you don't mind me asking...



(The caver is Malcolm Herbert and the cave is Cwmdwr II, in case anyone is interested.)

this is really bugging me...
i recognise that helmet....

You didn't sell it to Damo on ebay did you Troll? ;-)

Oh, and another thing.... The Aceto head set looks like the "older" version which bolted straight onto the helmet rather than the "newer" one which is spring loaded on to a plastic bracket. I bought a "newer" one in 1997, so it that part is probably 16 years old at the very least.

Of course, with a bit of TLC and tinkering, there's no reason why it might not work fine.

Rhys

Looks like a Snowdon Mouldings (they did a carbon one) or HB... said with no conviction.

stu said:

Looks like a Snowdon Mouldings (they did a carbon one) or HB... said with no conviction.

Click to expand...

I'm saying, with conviction, that it's a late 80s / early 90s Petzl!

I think the helmet in question (I mean a helmet of the type in question) appears on the front cover of ‎

Andy S's

"The Complete Caving Manual‎

‎The Crowood Press. 1997 edition  (ISBN: 1861260229)."

That picture's the 2001 edition, but the helmet is there alright...