Good Back up Light?

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gelliffe

New member
Just wondering what people would suggest as a good back up light.

I have used a strap on Petzl Tika type light and a mini Q40 dive light at different stages.

Pro's and cons to both types I think.

Does anyone know of a light weight type dive light that fits securely to the side of a caving helmet?
 
P

potholer

New member
How often do you expect to use the light - how reliable does your main light tend to be?

Are you wanting it to be adequate for getting out of a cave safely, or to function as a replacement for the main light - something you could enjoy using as your main light for most trips?

How long do you need it to run for, and at roughly what kind of output?

What power source does your main light use - would you want the backup light to be compatible?

As for secure fixing of a dive torch, what kind of helmet do you have - single shell, or foam?
 
alanw

alanw

Well-known member
I find that a light strapped to the side of the helmet tends to catch on passage walls.

I now use a Zebralight 502: very compact, which I normally wear around my neck.

http://www.flashaholics.co.uk/zebralight/zebralight-h502.html

It just fits under the brim of my helmet if I lift it up around my forehead.

Several settings, as you'd expect, and a nice even wide flood.

Easily transferable to someone else if they need it.
 
C

crickleymal

New member
I use a Petzl Tika or one of the cheap lookalikes. I can put it round my neck so it's out of the way then slide it up if needed
 
D

dunc

New member
potholer said:
How reliable does your main light tend to be?
Click to expand...
That is largely an irrelevant question, anything is prone to fail. I had a modern light which proved completely faultless for a few years, then, stood on the surface waiting to descend the entrance shaft, turned on light, and, nothing.. Regardless of how reliable a light is it can be prone to fail, usually when you least expect it or the most inconvenient moment etc.. That was the first time I'd used a backup light in 'anger' - not ideal, but just got me round the cave (luckily short) - a Fenix running off a single AAA, I've since added a better light, a single AA based Fenix for backup, or even spotting as it has a higher power output. I'd guess something AA based is best as they are the most common battery type carried - Duo users as one example, (personal experience) on the odd occasion when I drag a tub underground with camera/flash in it I usually have a couple of spare AA's for the flashes.

Both my backups are on the side of the helmet, Petzl Ecrin Roc - attached with loop of elastic cord and then a small cable tie threaded through the end of the light and through one of the helmet holes, just for extra security.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
Pixa3. Around my neck. I don't have a back-up on my helmet in case the chin strap fails and the whole lot falls off while on a pitch. That would be bad.
 
I

ianball11

Active member
Anyone have a necklace made of bone that illuminates in your hour of need?
Would be better if your Dad gave it to you and you forget about it till a few minutes after he is killed in front of you. 
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
No Ian,

He is not killed in-front of you, you kill him by drowning him in the sump pool.

On a serious note, I too have a Pixa (I think it's the two) but its strapped to my helmet as a backup which I realise won't do me any good if I drop my lid down a pitch.

 
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dunc

New member
Two posts mentioning it, so, the questions; how often does a lid fall off ones head? Does it happen, has it happened?
 
P

potholer

New member
dunc said:
potholer said:
How reliable does your main light tend to be?
Click to expand...
That is largely an irrelevant question, anything is prone to fail.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is irrelevant - if someone was expecting to use the backup multiple times per year rather than, for example, once a decade, it could affect what kind of backup solutions they might want in terms of output and energy capacity.

Personally, my always-carry backup is a Fenix E01, with spare cells and an AA Zebralight for longer trips.
I can cave on the E01 quite adequately, if not necessarily riotously enjoyably if other people are around buggering up my dark adaptation, but I really don't expect to use it from one year to the next, so I can balance the potential loss of pleasure on a trip against the known slim chances of that loss actually happening.

If my expectation of use was greater, I might choose to always carry something brighter.
 
D

dunc

New member
potholer said:
dunc said:
potholer said:
How reliable does your main light tend to be?
Click to expand...
That is largely an irrelevant question, anything is prone to fail.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is irrelevant - if someone was expecting to use the backup multiple times per year rather than, for example, once a decade, it could affect what kind of backup solutions they might want in terms of output and energy capacity.
Click to expand...
In that, probably extreme example, I'd be tempted to change main light rather than concentrating on backup lighting.  :confused:  but if your main light doesn't last long then I guess a decent backup is needed - question is, is it really a 'backup' if you need it to replace your main light on regular occasions?

Just got round to looking at my backups, Fenix E05 (doesn't last long - I 'just' about managed a full trip around WICC on it), since then I've gained an E11 - more suitable in my opinion, not yet used in anger.
 
G

gelliffe

New member
I would consider my main light to be reliable and long lasting.
And as a back up i literally mean a back up, which i don't expect to have to use.

On long trips underground I would have multiple lights in my bag for wearing at camp etc.

Personally I wouldn't like wearing  light around my neck, it would just irritate me while crawling.

Another point worth noting is weather the back up is actually rated as water proof.
So I guess the MiniQ40 I once had was waterproof and robust and compatible with AA's
however it didn't last terribly long.
On the other hand a tikka type light lasts fairly long but has a strap which becomes useless before to long.

Right now Im veering towards a dive light princeton tec or something like that.

Dropping one's helmet in a crack while taking it off in a squeeze, is another factor to consider I agree, but I guess its a balancing act amongst all of the factors you have rightly pointed out.
 
cap n chris

cap n chris

Well-known member
dunc said:
Two posts mentioning it, so, the questions; how often does a lid fall off ones head? Does it happen, has it happened?
Click to expand...

I've seen it 3 times. The new Caving Technical Guide reiterates the wisdom of considering keeping your backup light separate from your helmet, too, and advises unclipping the chinstrap if abseiling in particularly tight sections of cave so that you don't get garotted by your helmet if it catches on protrusions part-way down.

51XAyMT37vL._.jpg

 
F

Fulk

Well-known member
I have a Fenix E11 secured with cable ties to the side of my helmet. This torch is hardly bigger than the single AA battery that powers it, so it doesn't stick out much and catch on stuff. It has two light settings ? the 'blurb' that came with it states that the higher power is 115 lumen and lasts 1 hr 50 min on one battery, while the lower setting is rated at 38 lumens for 8 hr 23 min.

In practice, the higher-power light is more than adequate in small passages and fine in big ones, while the lower-power setting is fine in small ones, 'OK' in big ones.

Given that my main light runs off four AAs, and I always carry spares, then even on the full setting it should last several hours with what I have on a normal caving trip.
 
paul

paul

Moderator
There's an old saying:

Definition of a back-up light: A receptacle used to carry dead batteries.

Always ensure the spare light has fresh batteries (or freshly charged) and that you also have an adequate source of spare batteries.
 
B

blackholesun

New member
(I've a feeling this may have been discussed before, but anyway...)

I'll add another vote for the E11. The 8 and a bit hour setting is ideal for a lot of UK caving. Some other lights are probably more efficient but are let down by not having a setting in the useful range of 6 to 10 hours. It's also bright enough to cave with on its own, but is a bit spotty compared to a headlamp. Have used it many times, usually due to failing to charge my main light properly.

One advantage I like of having a backup on a headstrap (the E11 doesn't come with one, but they're cheap) is that you can put it on and have a light when you remove your helmet. As it's so small you can fit through squeezes or have your head very close to the roof in a duck. If you can pass the helmet to someone or shove it forwards then you can have both hands free, lighting and space for your head.
 
I

ianball11

Active member
I once met a chap on the way up to GG who lost his helmet and lamp over a long drop into a sump pool down in, I think, the Mendips.  He had to sit it out and wait for rescuing.
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
I almost dropped it once before, but as long as your not on a solo trip you likely can still get out. Its very unlikely all your party loose there lids lol.

However on a verticle trip with big pitches then abackup light should be seperate from your lid, as there might be a large gap between the next anchor were someone can wait to light the way. Due to this I would suggest taking 3rd one and stuff it in a bag that I keep with you, this is what I did in Dachstien, but have never done it in the UK.
 
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Fulk

Well-known member
Paul:
There's an old saying:

Definition of a back-up light: A receptacle used to carry dead batteries.
Click to expand...

Here's another old saying: I always have two emergency back-up lights ? the guy in front's and the guy behind's.
 
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