Hi everyone, just a question/warning.

I took a trip today down Carlswark Cavern today in Stoney Middleton Derbyshire with a friend. We dropped down the Eyam Dale Shaft, then took a left at the end of the passage, (right leads out via Eyam Passage to the Gin Entrance) I took a friend who is new to caving but he seemed capable so took a longer trip via Cockle Passage, Stalactite Passage and Pearl Chamber down to the main sump.

We were making good progress, we got to the Pearl Chamber just before Aladdin's Cave in about 40 minutes. Here there is a set of boulders with a small decent before a final sump (3 meters) and also a rather large torch if anyone is claiming, we left it in place as may be being used for a dig, however when we dropped down into this final area before the sump we both smelt a very strong smell of gas. I mean, knock you out type of smell. The one that really scares you. It was strong and we both smelt it instanly

The pair of us turned around and make the award accent up those boulders and out of there at twice the pace, now I cannot work out whether I was so out of breath due to a slight panic and increase in speed or because there was less oxygen at the bottom of the sump, but it certainly made me panic more and gave me a headache, as soon we we approached the small stream again, I felt fresher, the air felt less heavy.

I have done this trip before, never had any issues. We both made it out, but the pair of us 100% smelt gas down at that final sump and made a swift exit, has anyone else experienced this? I didn't last time. I would like to know anything if possible?

Thanks for any info.

I have experienced a diesel / hydrocarbon type smell when disturbing sediments in parts of Peak Cavern. Unpleasant but never had a reaction.

As above, did you disturb sediments, or was it possible someone was there a bit before you and disturbed them?
Not the same place but same cave, the Big Dig - I was a handful of metres behind someone and as they were disturbing sediments I noticed a non-natural smell filling the air, I guess the person in front didn't notice as much but it forced me to stop and backtrack a little due to it being quite a strong obnoxious smell!

a diesel / hydrocarbon type smell when disturbing sediments has been reported on a number of occasions in both Streaks and Carlswark by people. Maybe that's what you encountered. I've explored most of both caves and never accounted it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I believe it (the pollution) originally came from Horseshoe Quarry further up the dale when it was active...

Thank you for the replies, no sediments were disturbed by ourselves, there was dig gear around I wonder if these could have been disturbed a few hours/days before. It appears that we both clocked the gas smell as soon as we dropped down that 3 meter boulder area to the final sump, as if the stale air was just lingering and we dropped into it.

I didn't hang around to investigate further, but it smelt of a sulphur-like odour, like the gas at home rather than a diesel smell. The standard Eyam Dale Shaft through Eyam Passage to Gin Entrance is far enough away from it with a breeze all the way through so don't let this put anyone off going on that through trip, but I just wanted to let everyone know of my experience today down at the main sump. If I had CO2 measuring equipment I would be interesting in knowing the results down there.

Thanks again.

Not sure if this relevant but there is a suspected gas leak from the mains situated in the road somwhere near Hoaken Edge Sough.

T

If there's a gas leak under the road then it's entirely possible that it's found a route througb to the back of Carlswark, unfortunately the person who would have been most able to suggest what's going on was laid to rest in Eyam churchyard a couple of months back.

It's not impossible that there's been a buildup of hydrogen sulphide in there but unlikely, with the exception of one place at the far end of Clayton Mine you generally only find it in the Peak on the shale-gate soughs.

My daily commute takes me thought Stoney Dale, and in the 20 years I have been commuting I must have witnessed perhaps 20 or 30 repairs to the gas main which runs up that road - the most recent being about a month ago.  What is more astonishing is that in the winter I quite often smell gas driving up the dale (typically in the enclosed bit up from the Eyam turning, and before the back lane to Cavendish Mill).

Clearly the gas main up Stoney Dale is fundamentally flawed and leaky.  I would report is but fear for my sanity if faced with long term traffic lights whilst they try to sort it out properly...

Neil

Hasbeen caver said:

My daily commute takes me thought Stoney Dale, and in the 20 years I have been commuting I must have witnessed perhaps 20 or 30 repairs to the gas main which runs up that road - the most recent being about a month ago.  What is more astonishing is that in the winter I quite often smell gas driving up the dale (typically in the enclosed bit up from the Eyam turning, and before the back lane to Cavendish Mill).

Clearly the gas main up Stoney Dale is fundamentally flawed and leaky.  I would report is but fear for my sanity if faced with long term traffic lights whilst they try to sort it out properly...

Neil

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I too drive the dale every working day and smell gas loads! Probably an old ductile iron pipeline, which rather than replace the whole lot with plastic they just keep adding to their headaches by patching up the metal each time....

Probably just as well carbide is no longer a popular option for cavers! Do Scurion do an ATEX version?

If there is a possible accumulation of natural gas in the cave from a pipeline leak then people really need to be very careful about going there.

My understanding is that natural gas is lighter than air.
Is it feasable that gas leaking from near surface would migrate down and collect in a low section of the cave?

Or is the leak below the cave horizon and working up?

My understanding is that natural gas is lighter than air.

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A good point ? the density of methane is, indeed, just over half that of air.

Well, if people are smelling mercaptan in an area known for gas leaks I'd be assuming that there was gas and ask questions about how it got there only after I've ensured I'm safe.

I've got a Draeger meter and some methane tubes if anyone's feeling adventurous.

I wasn't aware of the gas repairs and poor pipe situation around the area, however it seems feasible that this is possibly the cause, it was certainly more of a natural gas smell from a pipeline rather than a hydrocarbon/diesel smell from disturbed sediments.

The route from Eyam Dale Shaft to Gin is safe enough, there is a breeze that runs through from the shafts, should be clearing out anything lingering down there, but certainly down towards main sump in the lowest sections of the cave it I would be cautious in now.

nickwilliams said:

I've got a Draeger meter and some methane tubes if anyone's feeling adventurous.

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Im in the dale most days and would like to get to the bottom of this

On Saturday a couple of us took a Draeger pump & methane tubes into Carlswark. We didn't smell gas at all in the cave but took 2 samples anyway. The first at the bottom of the 3m climb referred to by EDB4YLI55 and the second 15m or so along the passage at the sump, which was low.
Neither indicated any methane. In any event it is likely that with the mercaptan makes the human nose much more sensitive than the tubes.
There obviously had been gas there 2 days earlier but it wasn't there on Saturday.

Later we went along to the parking area opposite the bottom of Cucklet Delph. After a recent TSG trip into Nickergrove some people (including the person I was with on Saturday) had noticed a very strong smell of gas when getting changed there. She couldn't smell anything on Saturday.

Things obviously change very quickly, and it's possible that we never will get to the bottom of it.