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Rescue from Box by Fire service

Brains

Brains

Well-known member
"BBC Wiltshire ‏@BBCWiltshire 5 hrs5 hours ago

Seven people have been rescued by a crew from @Corsham_Fire overnight after getting lost in the disused Box Freestone Mine."

Good to know they are ok and out, but wondering why the local cave rescue group and or locals with extensive knowledge were not involved? Details are lacking but perhaps somebody can fill in the gaps?
 
Yet again the fire brigade are brought out for a cave rescue. Heads need banging together. Having had direct personal experience of a call out in the Mendip region it went along these lines.... 999, Police please... "Wish to get a cave rescue started". "We don't do that, you need the fire service for that, hang up and redial 999 and ask for them". "Sorry, but you're wrong, cave rescue is initiated via you, the police". "No, it isn't. it's the fire brigade that do that, I think". etc.. etc.. Hardly surprising when this is how it happens. Cave Rescue initiation in the South West needs sorting out, it might appear.
 
The problem is staff turnover so that nobody who knows the system is able to respond appropriately and it goes to default which now seems to be the Fire Brigade! In the past the ambulance service has also been called to caves (there was an incident in Devon some years ago).
 
The problem is clearly that there are insufficient rescues for the staff to remain 'au fait' with the correct procedures.

Maybe we should schedule monthly incidents?  :coffee:
 
Another problem is public perception. If dialling 999 and then being asked what service you require many proles would think "er,.... what emergency service wears helmets and overalls?.... Fire brigade! Yeah!!" and obviously opt for that on the grounds it's ruffty-tuffty.
 
Sounds like they had found one of the locked exits & (assuming they weren't cavers) the logical thing to do is call the fire brigade to open it for you - seems the fire brigade also did the sensible thing by co-opting a "local guide" to bring them out the main route.

Mike
 
MCR were involved through the SARCAL system and A&S Police.

Please don't just jump to random conclusions because you read it on the Internet.

Stu.
 
It might be helpful to pro-actively counter a link to an erroneous news story sooner than the 7+ hours it's been posted here, you know what UKC chit-chat can be like, left unchecked!
 
To clarify - Persons called 999 from Wiltshire and for reasons unknown were directed to the Fiire & Rescue Service, however within minutes Avon & Somerset Police intiated a call with MCR through the text and email based SARCAL system where no less than 5 volunteer wardens responded with the first being the controller for the incident.

Our local mine expert was called and he went straight to the scene and led the party out with the Fire services assistance from the Catherdral area of the mine. All other wardens were on standby until stood down when the party were reported safe.

Stu.
 
Chris

I could have told you what happened just after midnight when I was stood down.  Sorry I did not see the original post at lunchtime today and immediately correct it.  I was caving.  Someone on the internet is always wrong.  Move along, nothing else to see.

Duncan

[Stu posted while I was writing this]
 
:thumbsup: Ta! Does it count as a low profile rescue as far as the owners are concerned, or is it another nail in the access coffin?
 
Thank you for the extra info and clarification. As you say the internet can be a hinderance where a lack of info, or misinformation, is a problem.
 
To get some perspective on this I wonder if cave rescue have any call out stats. Box I would say has quite a high thoughput over the weekends a bit like Goatchurch maybe.
 
Yes they do, last year I don't think Mendip Cave Rescue had any cave related rescues (1 collapsed lung got himself out of Goatchurch with his friends), in 2013 they rescued 1 from Swildons, 1 got himself out of Reservoir & a member of the public fell into an entrance in the Avon Gorge that was an "easy walk in".

BCRC list only 23 incidents in 2013 across the whole country, 5 of which were searches for missing persons who were not cavers.

Mike
 
For information:
Between 1951 and 2007 MRO/MCR responded to 14 call outs to Box Stone mines involving a total of 45 persons. This sounds like a very large number of people per call out but is explained by the fact that many of them were to large parties of youngsters who discovered that bicycle lamps (or even candles) should not be the illumination of choice in a complex of this size. Note that there have never been any injuries sustained at this location during these incidents.
To give a sense of proportion to these figures - in the same period there were 18 call outs to Goatchurch involving 28 persons resulting in 10 injuries.
Swildon's Hole produced by far the bulk of the calls - 140 involving 286 people resulting in 40 injuries an 1 fatality.
 
Yes but there is a double standard in 'official attitude' involved that revolves around the word "mine"

I can tell you as a fact that people have been injured underground in mines and have risked further injury to get out to surface before calling for medics, and then swore before God that the accident happened on the surface.
 
The information I gave is correct. All the figures are for "official" call .outs via the Police to the Mendip Rescue Organisation - renamed Mendip Cave Rescue.
If you know otherwise please let us know. If people chose to self rescue - great - but get it wrong and you have to live with the consequences and, of course, you will skew the records.
 
Are the records supposed to record accidents underground, or incidents requiring assistance from a third party? If the former, then yes the record will be skewed. If the latter, then of course not. If I hurt myself underground but am capable of getting out, then why should the event be recorded as a rescue? I can see where Roy is coming from - it's a comment that reflects the possibly different attitude from official bodies towards mine accidents compared with cave accidents. Mines are Statutory Nuisances. Caves are not.
 
OK - let's keep this simple. The official MRO/MCR figures only record the times their assistance is requested by the relevant Police Force. This activates the insurance cover of the team. Unlike American Caving Accidents, near misses and other "incidents" are not recorded.
 
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