Author Topic: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted  (Read 3434 times)

Offline Mark R

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 134
  • BBPC
Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« on: January 10, 2017, 12:39:15 pm »
Over the course of three very long and fairly punnishing trips, Rowter Hole extensions have now been fully resin bolted. In total, 68 anchors were placed and all pre- existing rigging removed. The cave is now 'ready for use'.

We will publish a rigging topo in due course but need to arrange a trip for accurate rope length measurements. (If anyone is keen to help out with this/ do it then please let me know).

In the meantime, my best guess for a trip to the end will require ropes of:
Main shaft 70m
Gin shaft- 15m
Badger rift- 10m
Two Left Wellies- 50m
Milky Relief- 35m
Bottom of Orechasm- 50m

All hand lines in the Icecream trail are left in situ
All up pitches into the top of the Orechasm and Hourglass aven, up the slopes to Breathless and Sunrise are newly rigged on fresh ropes (160+m of rope!)
All deviations are left in situ
The catch nets in Hourglass Aven have also been emptied but there is still loose rock around so be careful.
To get to the bottom of the orechasm you will need around 30-35 connectors.

As I said above, this is a guess- so please be cautious.

 

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2017, 12:43:16 pm »
Well done fellas.

Thanks very much

Offline pwhole

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1180
  • TSG, PDMHS
    • Phil Wolstenholme website
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 12:44:46 pm »
Wonderful work - well done. Hopefully a trip beyond the Wizard's Sleeve (my current limit) can be done before too long then.

Offline MJenkinson

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 317
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2017, 01:10:59 pm »
Thank you - though probably too hard a trip for me!

Online MarkS

  • Global Moderator
  • obsessive maniac
  • *****
  • Posts: 463
  • YUCPC, BBPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 01:48:30 pm »
It's worth noting that the previously extremely awkward pitch-head at the top of the Orechasm can now probably be described as just moderately awkward with the new higher anchors. It's a good time to visit with all the fixed ropes being new!

Offline A_Northerner

  • regular
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • SUSS 'til you die
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 04:05:59 pm »
I'm keen to do the trip - but I'm not free until after the 20th Jan, if you get a chance to do it before then then by all means go but after then I'll be glad to come along.
In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. This time it WAS a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell...

Offline skippy

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • CPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 04:09:26 pm »
Fantastic effort...well done folks :thumbsup: I still 'dine out' on my trip to the bottom of the Chrystal Orechasm and consider it to be my favourite trip of 2015.
Glenn.

Offline chunky

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • The Dudley, SWCC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 07:37:16 pm »
Fantastic job. Many thanks to everyone involved.

I look forward to doing the main shaft, watching as the lesser cake eaters are swallowed in to the bowels of the Peak District and waddle back up for refreshments whilst awaiting their return  :thumbsup:

Offline Mark Richards ( Wales )

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 08:26:52 pm »
Good work, going to make life harder for me next time round, now a lot of the in the in situ rope has gone, but that is the way it should be.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2017, 07:18:03 am »
Over the course of three very long and fairly punnishing trips, Rowter Hole extensions have now been fully resin bolted. In total, 68 anchors were placed...

What type of anchors and what type of resin?

Offline Mark R

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 134
  • BBPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 12:44:32 pm »
BP anchors with Fischer FIS V 360 Vinylester Hybrid Mortar

Offline Mark R

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 134
  • BBPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 01:35:44 pm »
I'd  just like to take this opportunity to say a big thanks to the BCA Equipment and Techniques Committee for the equipment we used and for the BCA for the training and for offering to pay travel and other expenses.
Finally, thanks also to CAN Geotechnical for letting us borrow some kit for the bolting!

Online Alex

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3449
  • BRCC, UWFRA.
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 03:08:25 pm »
Can you sell these bolts to the CNCC?  :bounce: :spank:
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Mark R

  • addict
  • **
  • Posts: 134
  • BBPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2017, 08:50:58 pm »
for the BCA for the training and for offering to pay travel and other expenses

Typo there- it's the DCA who trained us and are paying the expenses

Online Alex

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3449
  • BRCC, UWFRA.
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 11:14:40 am »
I wonder why CNCC do not do the same thing?. I would happily be trained to do it provided they paid for I, which apparently they don't only the BCA pays for the bolts.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 02:20:52 pm »
for the BCA for the training and for offering to pay travel and other expenses

Typo there- it's the DCA who trained us and are paying the expenses

On the other thread Mark Wright implied that the BCA paid £1000 for the anchors in Rowter. Is that correct?

Offline Mark Wright

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
  • NCC, BBPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2017, 02:45:18 pm »
What I actually said was:

I doubt re-bolting Rowter Hole would have been done if the BCA hadn’t funded it. The digging and climbing project cost over £2,000 in materials and access fees and another £1,000 for anchors would have broken the club’s bank.

If the Badgers had been expected to buy all the 68 anchors and the resin themselves it would have cost about £1,000.00

Mark

Offline andrewmc

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • EUSS, BEC, YSS...
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2017, 06:26:50 pm »
I wonder why CNCC do not do the same thing?. I would happily be trained to do it provided they paid for I, which apparently they don't only the BCA pays for the bolts.

Whatever happened to the volunteer spirit? :P

(having said that I guess I should volunteer down whichever bit of the South I decide I am really in - Mendips/Devon - next time there is a bolting thing...)

(unless you actually have to _pay_ for the training itself rather than just expenses?)

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2017, 07:23:31 am »
What I actually said was:

I doubt re-bolting Rowter Hole would have been done if the BCA hadn’t funded it. The digging and climbing project cost over £2,000 in materials and access fees and another £1,000 for anchors would have broken the club’s bank.

If the Badgers had been expected to buy all the 68 anchors and the resin themselves it would have cost about £1,000.00

Mark

Did the DCA receive £1000 for Rowter Hole anchors? If not £1000, how much did they receive?

Offline Mark Wright

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 543
  • NCC, BBPC
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2017, 12:49:02 pm »
What I actually said was:

I doubt re-bolting Rowter Hole would have been done if the BCA hadn’t funded it. The digging and climbing project cost over £2,000 in materials and access fees and another £1,000 for anchors would have broken the club’s bank.

If the Badgers had been expected to buy all the 68 anchors and the resin themselves it would have cost about £1,000.00

Mark

Did the DCA receive £1000 for Rowter Hole anchors? If not £1000, how much did they receive?

You are losing me now. Did the DCA receive £1000 for Rowter Hole anchors from whom?

The DCA supplied all the anchors, resin and installation equipment. If we had decided that Rowter needed e.g. Petzl Collinox anchors instead of BP anchors then we would have had to go to a shop and buy everything ourselves at a cost of about £1000.

Mark

Offline bob dearman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2017, 01:19:03 pm »
As DCA Equipment Officer I would just like to clarify the above dialogue. The anchors and resin and all the installation equipment i.e. drills, resin guns, bits etc were all supplied by BCA FOC to DCA. Expenses incurred by the installers i.e. transport, will be paid by DCA out of their regional fund. DCA does not receive any monies, only equipment, from BCA for projects.

Offline Simon Wilson

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1320
    • IC Resin Anchor
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 02:27:18 pm »
As DCA Equipment Officer I would just like to clarify the above dialogue. The anchors and resin and all the installation equipment i.e. drills, resin guns, bits etc were all supplied by BCA FOC to DCA. Expenses incurred by the installers i.e. transport, will be paid by DCA out of their regional fund. DCA does not receive any monies, only equipment, from BCA for projects.

Thanks for informing us Bob. Mark certainly gave the impression that it was entirely funded by the BCA and that the amount was £1000. We now know that it was only partly funded by the BCA and partly by the DCA.

Offline Bob Mehew

  • forum hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1014
  • breaking knots is fun
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2017, 10:41:47 am »
Thanks for informing us Bob. Mark certainly gave the impression that it was entirely funded by the BCA and that the amount was £1000. We now know that it was only partly funded by the BCA and partly by the DCA.
Not necessarily true.  The situation is complicated.  BCA E&T Committee was happy to deal with kit but did not wish to deal with expenses.  Expenses are first dealt with by Regional Caving Councils (RCCs).  RCCs submit claims at the end of each year to BCA for reimbursement.  The guidance agreed by BCA & RCC Treasurers for expenditure related to E&T matters is as follows:

1) Allowable:
a) Eco Anchors and Resin will be provided for free by the Equipment Committee for sites where all BCA Member Clubs have access. 

b) Grants are available to cover the costs of the instructor and consumables for training (including refresher training) in the placement of eco anchors  from the Equipment Committee.

2) Not Allowable:
Eco Anchors and Resin where not all BCA Member Clubs have access.


So DCA may well be claiming from BCA for the expenses part of this project in due course.   

(Sorry finger trouble caused a posting before I had finished composing.)

Offline Madness

  • forum star
  • ****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2017, 10:37:33 pm »
DCA website states that Public Liability Insurance is required for Rowter.

Is that still the case?

Offline Jenny P

  • obsessive maniac
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: Rowter Hole- Now Bolted
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2017, 04:14:10 pm »
If it says that on the website it should be correct but I will check and post reply.

Jenny Potts, DCA Hon. Sec.