I was thinking about putting together a super-light SRT kit for those caves which have one or two short pitches a long way inside the cave. I'm after something that's safe, reasonably efficient (will accept that it might not be as efficient as a standard SRT kit) and fits in your oversuit pocket. I reckon I should be able to reduce the weight by half. Got a healthy collection of Wild Country Ropemen, Petzl Tiblocs, cord, slings, descenders and a bit of time this Friday to experiement. Anyone done a similar thing or got any thoughts?

Sounds like a good idea.

In the past - Ive jugged out of sea cliffs using a tib lock instead of a hand jammer, with a 120 sling as a foot loop, and a wild country rope man on a small pear shaped krab off the belay loop.  It actually worked a lot smoother than I imagined.
Tiblocs are crap when used in place of a croll but the ropeman is good as you can pull the slack though with your right hand - (a bit like when you have to udge up a bit with a stich plate type belay device).

The 'heavy' bit of an srt kit, is usually the D. dispense with that and you've practically halved the weight already.

For the kind of situation your talking about - my initial thoughts would be.

Light weight climbing harness -
tibloc with small ally screwgate - 6mm foot loop & safety cord (larks foot to belay loop)
ropeman on ally oval screwgate.
cows tails (only one possibly) larks footed onto belay loop on harness.
descender - maybe just a stichplate/fig8 with leg loop prussik loop.

Im sure theres room for improvement in the above - but as a starting block.

I guess you're after a sling, a central maillon, an HMS krab, cowstails, two prussik loops and something to lengthen one of the prussik loops to your feet. You can use the long cowstail to connect the foot prussik to your central maillon.

Will all that fit in an oversuit pocket? One way to find out!

The couple of times I've tried prussiking with just prussik loops I have found it best if the foot one goes beneath the chest one.

A lighter version can be made with just one prussik loop and wrapping the rope around the foot to stand up, but it's extremely hard work ... not to mention a little scary relying on one prussik knot!

damian said:

The couple of times I've tried prussiking with just prussik loops I have found it best if the foot one goes beneath the chest one.

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Good point about the foot prussik going below the chest one. Means that the rope is under tension as you stand up in the footloop and slide the chest prussik up the rope. Will be interesting to experiment with prussiks, ropemen and tiblocs on muddy rope. See which is the most reliable.

Might investigate using a ropeman at the chest with another ropeman below with the footloop coming off it.

Can use an Italian Hitch on a HMS for abbing with so will go with that rather than a descender as mentioned earlier.

SamT said:

Light weight climbing harness -

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Sling and HMS krab

SamT said:

tibloc with small ally screwgate - 6mm foot loop & safety cord (larks foot to belay loop)
ropeman on ally oval screwgate.

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Two prussic loops

SamT said:

cows tails (only one possibly) larks footed onto belay loop on harness.

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use one prussic loop to improvise a cowstail, perhaps a small snap link krab as well

SamT said:

descender - maybe just a stichplate/fig8 with leg loop prussik loop.

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Italian Hitch

so - 1 sling, 1 HMS krab, 2 prussic loops, possibly a snap link krab - looks pretty minimal and light weight to me 

I reckon this is going to be one of those things where the devil's going to be in the detail. The main issue's going to be getting your body in a fairly efficient prussiking position using this kit. I've done a fair bit of ascending climbing ropes using a climbing harness and prussiks and I reckon I might have achieved 50% efficiency compared with SRT kit. Would like something more efficient than that so reckon it's going to be the harness/possibly chest harness that's going to be particularly important. Might find that a sling for a harness works well but might also try a very lightweight climbing harness. Will have a play later in the week anyway.

My ultralightweight SRT rig/bodge wot I've been using for a couple of years is:

1 x sling (i.e. harness)
1 x dyneema narrow sling (i.e. footloop)
1 x ropeman plus miniature 3KN krab (hand jammer assembly) plus connector (7mm cord)
1 x croll (OK so that could be a bit smaller somehow but I like the chunky reassurance!)
1 x sml HMS (to ab on and to clip sling/croll/sling for return prussik)
N.B. While prussiking the croll is held in place by clipping top hole to a v. sml cheapo key-ring krab into my spare lamp's elastic strap (kept around neck).


All this packs down into a v.small space. You can use a tibloc instead of the ropeman and you could probably use a separate small bit of elastic larks footed straight into the top of the croll and placed around your neck to keep it in place for prussiking. This "SRT" rig presumes no traverses/rebelays as it doesn't include cowstails or other frills! In conjunction with 10m of 9mm* it equates to considerably less weight/bulk than a ladder (which tend to snap unexpectedly and are therefore totally unsuitable for solo** pitches anyway).

* Or 8mm or 7mm if you're brave but obviously this is outside of manufacturer's spec for ascension devices.
** P.S. Don't try this at home, kids. No, seriously; don't do solo vertical unless you're stupid, brave or both. I'm stupid.

cap 'n chris said:

1 x croll (OK so that could be a bit smaller somehow but I like the chunky reassurance!)

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If there's one thing that I'd like to keep from my full SRT setup it's the Croll. No matter how muddy the rope or how awkward the prussiking position, the Croll's going to work. Top jammer, something like a ropeman will be fine.

Thanks for that info. Will have a go!

Thinking along the lines of less bulk...

ditch the harness.

Chris has suggested a sling which I know you (JB) will be able to improvise a harness with. I'd like to try and see what can be knocked up with some 7 or 8mm cord. I know several rope variation harness which are better than any sling type harness's - slings are often difficult to get to fit just right. A rope harness is very easy to tie, so no sloppy bits! With some extra rope a throw over the shoulder "chest" harness could be rigged to keep your Croll in place (small maillons top and bottom) - if that's what you go with. Rope and for that matter a sling, would be very easy to wrap around your waist when not in use.

Not going to be that comfy though!

There are some prussic variants which work very well on muddy rope if ultra is what you're after. In fact I think this could all be done on cord!

Ultra - lite - recipe for disaster menu!!!


Cord harness * 7 or 8mm 3 - 4 mts should do it - cord for prussic * 5 or 6mm 30cm of - footloop (use rope to stand in) - HMS or couple of maillons for decent!!! Absolutely no margin whatsoever!!

My preferred sling improv-harness is as follows:

take your sling and put a single twist in it so you can now step into your minimalistic sling-thong panties!

pull the spare sling-thong webbing together in the middle and clip a krab into it; take the krab and thread it between your tummy and your belt, wrapping it around the belt a couple/three times to take in any remaining slack and to self-equalise your body between your thighs/thong straps and your belt. Hey presto, you should have a clipping in point/krab right next to your belly button, just where you want it and your body weight should be mostly resting on your thighs while your body is kept upright by your belt under tension.

A belt???? Thought we were going lite!!! 

Come on, next you'll be telling me you wear an oversuit and fleece!!

No. Just a condom and a pair of flip flops.

Flip flops!!!?


When I were a lad we caved with now't but lids off jam jars!

Condom would have to be featherlite I expect?

The key to a lite kit is full functionality

Therefore safe life kit

8ish mm cowstails with helium crabs

Dyneema footloop (5.5mm and indistructable)

alluminium mailons instead of screw gates for jammers etc.

HMS crab as a descended (lockable by wrapping loops round your leg like a fig 8)

Ascenders - ropeman/ tibloc ok but easily dropped at change overs. Dragon use to do a clamp with a hinge which would work well. I think the petzl microascender is similar.

Petzl harness is pretty small but a 120cm sling would probably work ok aswell though not comfortable

RM said:

The key to a lite kit is full functionality

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Interesting that you raise that point. I think, looking at the OP there is a distinction to be made here between light as in lightweight and lite which could be defined as pared down. One is functional in the way know it and one will function to a specific remit.

I used to have a weird Wild Country (?) thingy for ascending called "The Hand" IIRC..... is that still around...

I had it in my kit as an emergancy ascender....all except for the time I needed it of course....

RM said:

HMS crab as a descended (lockable by wrapping loops round your leg like a fig 8)

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You can lock an Italian Hitch by taking a bight of rope from below and tying it around the rope above the krab with a couple of half hitches. 

and you can lock a fig 8 by passing 'trapping' the live rope (the bit in your hand) between the top of the fig * and the taught 'dead' rope (the one your hanging off) . Best backed up by tying a bight off round the HMS crab below - but Im sure JB knows all this.

Best way Ive seen is having a small prussik loop on your right leg loop - just where your braking hand normally is. you breaking hand keeps this prussik sliding - but let go - and it will grab and then lock the descending device - care has to be taken to ensure that it isnt long enough that it gets dragged into the device.

This is moving off topic though.

Back on topic - I'd choose tiblocs/ropemen over trad prussik loops any day - they are going to work on muddy ropes much better (esp. a tibloc). a tibloc is probably lighter and definatly more compact than a prussik loop.

As for dropping them - there is provision on them for keeper wires/tat which if arranged well- virtually reduces the risk of dropping them to zero.

JB said:

Good point about the foot prussik going below the chest one. Means that the rope is under tension as you stand up in the footloop and slide the chest prussik up the rope. Will be interesting to experiment with prussiks, ropemen and tiblocs on muddy rope. See which is the most reliable.
Might investigate using a ropeman at the chest with another ropeman below with the footloop coming off it.

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If efficiency is what your after - then putting you footloop jammer - below your chest seriously reduces this.

By using a ropeman on your belay loop instead of a croll, There is no need to bother with a chest harness - its pretty efficient because your right hand pulls the slack though.

I have to admit - if there are lots of rebelays on this imaginary remote pitch - a croll would be easier to get on and off the rope.

Do you have anywhere specific in mind jules.