what do people think for soaking new rope prior to cutting.
leave it on the roll and weight the roll so it sinks or unroll it and leave it in the bath?

any evidence or theories either way or just hearsay?

From the BEAL website:

"NB: Before first use of a semi-static rope, it is necessary to pre-shrink it to reduce it to its true working length. For this, it is preferable to soak and then dry the rope still on the reel, as this stiffens it less."

http://www.bealplanet.com/portail-2006/index.php?page=preparer_corde&lang=us

thats what i thougt. i just couldn't remember where i'd seen it.

If it's still on the reel, it must take a fair while for the rope on the inside to get washed clean of the soapy lubricant, or is it meant to be soaked/dried to shrink it, and then rinsed when off the reel to get it clean?

From the various ropes I've dealt with, the initial soaking only ever seems to do part of the shrinking, even if it's multiple soak/dry cycles, carried on until there's no feel/taste of soapiness in the rinse water.

Generally, it seems to be about 5% length loss from the initial treatment, followed by another 5% or so after some use, and that seems fairly consistent over all kinds of caving rope.

I agree, I tend to cut/purchase my ropes at about 10% extra and then wash/shrink them in smaller ammounts to guarentee a complete soak/wash.
Used a mates rope that had not been washed properly on the big pitch in Rowten in the summer and found I could not stop at all, even when I pushed the handle up on the Stop. Scary! Wash 'em well!

well i went down oxlow on 9mm rope that had been rinsed a few times.
on a simple

not a problem

potholer said:

...

Generally, it seems to be about 5% length loss from the initial treatment, followed by another 5% or so after some use, and that seems fairly consistent over all kinds of caving rope.

Click to expand...

Had some new Mammut 10mm recently to check / test this on...

36.5m as cut off the reel.  Soaked it in a dustbin for 24hrs, changing the water half a dozen times during that time period.  Last empty of water still slightly milky looking...

Ran it through a rack twice, in the same direction each time, to bed in the sheath and to squeeze some of the water out.  No sign of any looseness of the sheath at the 'downstream' end after this process, however water drips were still coming out slightly milky.

Put it back in to soak for another 24hrs, again with several water changes.  Ran it through the rack twice more, again in the same direction as previously, still some very slight milkyness in the drips but rinse water certainly didn't feel soapy, as it did to start with.

Coiled loosely and dried for a couple of days. 

Remeasured at 33.1m, which reprsents a 9.3% loss in length before it has been used.

I've marked it as 30m on the basis that it will shrink further with time and use.

M.

That's interesting.

I haven't bothered measuring new rope pre-soaking, only when it comes to cutting it up later after drying.
I always do multiple soaking/water changing/drip-drying cycles, and always seem to end up with Edelrid 10/11mm, Bluewater 9.5, Beal spelenium gold and a few others all being pretty close to 190m from a nominal 200m reel, with more shrinkage happening later.

I'm assuming a 200m reel is actually 200m.

potholer said:

I'm assuming a 200m reel is actually 200m.

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Mammut say that their reels are over 200m, to allow for initial shrinkage.
All the same, 190m/reel is about what I am used to getting.

Cheers
Charlie

It would seem a bit odd to make rope overlong to allow for about half the initial shrinkage, though maybe it's some kind of split-the-difference gesture.

potholer said:

It would seem a bit odd to make rope overlong to allow for about half the initial shrinkage, though maybe it's some kind of split-the-difference gesture.

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I reckon it isn't anything so scientific, bung a couple of extra meters on the end and then you
(a) don't have to cut it completely accurately
(b) have made a goodwill gesture [which was kind of what you said...] for zero effort and very little cost

Remember also we may not be measuring length and shrinkage properly, isn't there supposed to be a weight on the end? that will make a difference from laying it out on the floor.

Cheers
Charlie

some info is given in the thread http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,5576.0.html .  Briefly, the british standard (BS EN 1891:1998) requires shrinkage to be determined but no limit is given.  Some manufacturers' data indicates initial shrinkage between 2 and 5% but the general view seemed to be the rope continued to shrink in use though no figure was cited.

Dunno about rope shrinkage but I do know that as time passes all the bloody pitches have got a lot longer!

graham said:

Dunno about rope shrinkage but I do know that as time passes all the bloody pitches have got a lot longer!

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nah that is you shrinking - it is called old age so join the club