Traditionalist caver finds to his horror that now his aged external steel toecap boots are disintegrating (after a mere 20 years of alternating use and neglect), Bat Products is no more (sob!) so where do Mendip cavers (seemingly the last significant slice of the UK caving population to use them) buy theirs?

Caving just wouldn't be the same without rock hard leather boots that need ten minutes soaking before they can be worn!

If you've seen any for sale in recent times please do let me know - cheers!

Do Mendip cavers still buy external steel toecap boots?

No.

Never have.

Don't reckon I ever will. The steel caps get wedged and/or the boots fall apart; there are loads of steel toe caps to be found in Mendip caves which attest to this fact.

Yes - proper boots are better!

I have tried wellies recently & are a pain (literally) on ladders.

Pan Tools in Bedminster still sell external steel toe cap boots - otherwise google finds a lot of suppliers.

Work safety boots do wonders in this regard, just google for a million suppliers.

You can get:
Leather boots with steel toe cap - you go thtem to last 20 years! Blimey. I've trashed several in <1 year each.
Rubber chemical short boots with steel toe cap -  I used to use these but the laces tend to pull through.
Full wellies with steel

or my recent find, and currently very very pleased with:
Fur lined rubber riggers boots. I bought these for ?20 from Wickes.

when i first started caving i used a old pair of my dads work boots,but know i use wellies and wouldnt think to go back to wearing boots.they are akword to take off when wet,your feet get wet quicker,and you half to faf around with undoing laces when you come back from a trip,rather than just sliding them off.

I originally used the old external toe-cap boots, because I got them free from work.. but their benefits are few and their drawbacks, many.

I still have, somewhere about, a pair of the old 'Whernside' lace-up boots which were great! There was also a pair of vibram-soled wellies in the range, although I never used these.

those rubber rigger boots are good kit, like all good ideas, once you see them, they are obvious!

No way.

Imo wellies. Buy my caving wellies from Mole Valley Farmers, cost ?7. Non slip, good treads, never gone arse over tit.

Cheap enough to buy two pairs - one pair for dry caves, another drilled with 5mm holes for drainage to use in wet caves. Steel toecaps are an absolute menace.

Landmasters are better than the MVF cheapies, but are considerably dearer. I wear them for work and use retired ones for caving (if they leak rather than worn out).

Hughie said:

Cheap enough to buy two pairs - one pair for dry caves, another drilled with 5mm holes for drainage to use in wet caves. Steel toecaps are an absolute menace.

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Why drainage? Don't your feet get cold if you're forever changing the water and replacing it with cold?

Because carrying an extra kilo of water around in your boots is knackering?

kay said:

Don't your feet get cold if you're forever changing the water and replacing it with cold?

Click to expand...

Sorry - should have clarified - drilled boots worn with neoprene socks. As Peter pointed out, it saves hoicking around all that extra weight. I hoik enough of that around already  .

Hughie said:

Steel toecaps are an absolute menace.

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why 

I spend a lot of time moving big rocks around in digs, so I thing steel toe caps are a god send.
You dont have to be digging either, loose scree slopes can cause rocks to roll onto your toe.

cant see how they are a menace in any way shape or form  :-\

When you put your foot down in a gap, your body weight forces the steel toe cap to wedge in; it is then hard work, indeed, to remove the boot from its wedged position. See:

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,3601.0.html

Frequent wedging of the boot results in the toe cap being worn away from the boot itself and then falling off, usually to be found by eagle-eyed cavers, most frequently in Swildon's Hole where it appears that approximately half of all the stream gravel is rusty steel toe caps.

Strongly-held opinions!

About 2:5 against boots, I figure. I'm in the minority that prefer boots - only ever got them *really stuck* (i.e. had to take the boot off to escape) a handful of times that I can recall, and thats in thirty years and over 500 trips.

@Caving-fox: the boots lasted 20 years because I almost retired from the underground scene in the mid 90s following the arrival of childrten, and the few trips I did were mostly in mines - which are not as hard on clothing and footwear as caves. Earlier pairs probably lasted about four or five years each when I was much more active in caves than mines.

@ Cap'n Chris: Never had the toecaps come off - the leather and the stitching rotted first (might be all that acid minewater I paddled around in ...). Don't seem to recall a unique geological horizon of steel toecap gravel in Swildons - but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough! 

Sounds like caving shops have ceased to sell external steel toecap leather boots and their remaining adherants patronise workwear / safetywear shops. It's good to confirm this - web and yellow pages my next stop ...

Thanks folks for the burst of replies!

I'll even it up a bit. My CS boots with external steel caps were the best boots I ever had. Maybe I'll look out for a similar pair next time I need some new caving footwear, or maybe some riggers boots. The rubber ankle boots I once used were the worst I ever had due to their dreadful soles which gripped nothing, especially in the Midnight Traverses - I still have nightmares of that trip!

Wellies do it for me.. but would agree with the use of steel-toe capped ones for digging, as i have mashed my toes enough over the years without them. However, for general caving use, a wellie with a flexible toe is much better for climbing, etc, and let's face it, on general caving trips it's less likely for rocks to fall on your feet! I am quite happy with the last pair of wellies flogged to me by J-rat, although i find these tend to wear out annually (or split just above the heel).  I Think over the years i have walked more miles (without any ill-effect) in wellies and wetsocks that i ever have in my gore-tex walking books and posh socks! 

SamT said:

Hughie said:

Steel toecaps are an absolute menace.

Click to expand...

why

I spend a lot of time moving big rocks around in digs, so I thing steel toe caps are a god send.
You dont have to be digging either, loose scree slopes can cause rocks to roll onto your toe.

cant see how they are a menace in any way shape or form :-\

Click to expand...

cap 'n chris said:

When you put your foot down in a gap, your body weight forces the steel toe cap to wedge in; it is then hard work, indeed, to remove the boot from its wedged position. See:

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,3601.0.html

Frequent wedging of the boot results in the toe cap being worn away from the boot itself and then falling off, usually to be found by eagle-eyed cavers, most frequently in Swildon's Hole where it appears that approximately half of all the stream gravel is rusty steel toe caps.

Click to expand...

Agree. Wedging is awful - can abide it.

Sam T - likewise I spend a lot of time moving/breaking/prising boulders in digs and have never had a problem. Unprotected feet focus the mind on what and how I'm doing something. If the boulder I'm working on is likely to fall on a foot - I make sure they're out of the way - or reduce the boulder to less pain inducing dimensions. I feel if I protect myself overly, then I could very easily get blase (sp) and perhaps put others at risk .

I just getting back into caving after a couple of decades away. Back then external steel toe cap boots seemed to be the thing, however I now use a pair of neoprene wellies, which I had before I took up caving again. Don't know how long they'll last but as far as I am concerned they are the dogs. Really grippy and they don't need wetsuit socks, so they are really close fitting and so don't hold too much water.

Just on a point about boots, and laces - you can get side zip steel toecap work boots, so the laces are just to adjust the fit, getting them off just needs the zip undoing. Although from experience the zip can be a bit prone to coming undone.