Having spent a fair amount of time in t'harness recently doing fiddly stuff (Exped bolting, rigging/rescue training etc.), it occured to me that it should be pretty easy to make sitting in a standard harness for extended durations far more pleasant. Therefore...

Commissioned Warmbac to make these add-ons which fit standard Petzl Superavanti/Fractio harnesses, for rigger comfort and to reduce the likelihood of Harness Induced Pathology problems:

Three identical slot-on pieces, each weighing 170g. They are easy to slide on and off. They are a meaty 4 inch width instead of the harness webbing skimpy 1.75 inch width, thus greatly reducing the cutting-in effect of the standard harness.

Fabricated from 5 ton webbing, they should be eminently durable. Haven't worked out a cost/price yet, though - I guess that might depend upon the demand but I'm sure any riggers who are off on 2010 Expedition shortly will be VERY HAPPY to have this additional bit of gear and should contact Warmbac for further details/to order theirs.







Underground testing tomorrow ... will report back any fine-tuning and/or observations which crop up...



http://www.warmbac.com/

That should ease the pressure on the sitting-on bits   

Will Warmbac be supplying said items?

Are you getting tubby again, Captain?

Yep! Will be thinner after expedition and othersuch malarks, though! 

Report from underground test trip: Thrupe Lane Swallet, Friday 26th March 2010

Easy to put on, nice and comfy for descent; went in via Railway Series and it didn't impede horizontal caving manoevres one iota; easy to scramble, crawl etc..

On all descents it was comfortable; similarly on ascents.

Works a treat.

stevejw said:

Will Warmbac be supplying said items?

Click to expand...

If you want it, and ask, I'm sure it will be available: give 'em a ring - they might sound surprised and need a bit of a reminder about it but mention something along the lines of "Chris' harness thingies idea" and it might remind them!

Isn't threre alreay a comfy seat type rigging harness, called the Navaho, out there?
:

Burt said:

Isn't threre alreay a comfy seat type rigging harness, called the Navaho, out there?

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Ah that thing is a beauty! Can't help thinking that the croll would end up fairly high on the chest - especially as a maillon would have to be connected to the already large attachment point...  But it does look comfy - like it should have armrests and a cup holder

hi - i have a navaho , for non caving activities - and yup its ultra comfy , but unleess you put the croll on mallion BEHIND the front metal d ring of the harness - it does end up being a

also - they are not abrasion or mud resistant - a few cave trips would probally see it getiing wear and tear enough to consign it to the bin

if people want a ` off the shelf ` confy harnness - the petzl falcon ascent would appear to fit the bill - its certainly comfy - and puts the croll in the right place ] - but again i wouldnt like to take it in a cave cos at 95 quid - its expensive it it gets damaged

I have a MTDE Varonia. The Bosun's chair makes descents + rigging / bolting super comfy (if you use it correctly, lots of people tighten it almost as a 2nd waistloop, at which point it does nothing), but a negligible improvement on ascent (but then again, half the time on the way up you're standing). There's the even thicker strapped MTDE Picos as well. V. nice low attachment point.

cap 'n chris said:

Report from underground test trip: Thrupe Lane Swallet, Friday 26th March 2010

Easy to put on, nice and comfy for descent; went in via Railway Series and it didn't impede horizontal caving manoevres one iota; easy to scramble, crawl etc..

On all descents it was comfortable; similarly on ascents.

Works a treat.

Click to expand...

As a non-mendip caver, I was wondering what kind of trip profile Thrupe Lane has?
(How long hanging rigging, hanging sitting around, etc.)
Apart from the original (non-super) Avanti, I've ony really noticed Petzl caving harnesses getting uncomfortable after fairly extended hanging, such as minimal leg movement for 30mins+.
Would you have expected to be uncomfortable without the tapes?

How do the wide leg straps work w.r.t. crotch, etc? Are the tape corners at all stiff, or in interesting places?

At first thought, I'd wonder what the edges of the 4" tape would be doing, since the tape isn't under direct tension the way the harness tapes are (ie would a 3" tape work as well), but I guess that extra width might give a softer edge to the harness, or the stiffness of the tape might help give the edges some tension.
When on, how taut did the edges of the tape feel to be?

i guess mass would mean a harness would be comfier - as the straps would be longer so weight would be spread across a larger area... however larger mass would normally lead to greater weight, which would make things uncomfortable...  I wonder if there is any way of measuring whether ...large... people find it less comfortable than regular sized people...  Probably worst for us athletic types (I WISH HA!) , as muscle weighs a lot more than fat - without the increased surface area  

potholer said:

As a non-mendip caver, I was wondering what kind of trip profile Thrupe Lane has?
(How long hanging rigging, hanging sitting around, etc.)
Apart from the original (non-super) Avanti, I've ony really noticed Petzl caving harnesses getting uncomfortable after fairly extended hanging, such as minimal leg movement for 30mins+.
Would you have expected to be uncomfortable without the tapes?

How do the wide leg straps work w.r.t. crotch, etc? Are the tape corners at all stiff, or in interesting places?

At first thought, I'd wonder what the edges of the 4" tape would be doing, since the tape isn't under direct tension the way the harness tapes are (ie would a 3" tape work as well), but I guess that extra width might give a softer edge to the harness, or the stiffness of the tape might help give the edges some tension.
When on, how taut did the edges of the tape feel to be?

Click to expand...

Prolly not going to be answering many of these questions because my "trial run" in Thrupe had another element to it, viz: the comfy harness was being worn beneath my SlinkySRTSuit[tm] which is an anti-snag invention for a return trip to last year's expedition cave where my harness got royally shagged (i.e. ripped up big-style) in 9 days: therefore the SlinkySRTSuit was invented (as per a previous thread about kit R&D). The SSS is a standard oversuit which has been modified to allow the clip in parts of a standard harness to poke out of front, thus meaning the harness itself is worn against the undergarments, underneath the oversuit (this means that on the return expedition trip only the oversuit will be ripped and my shiny new harness will be AOK, thanks very muchly). The Thrupe trip was to determine whether the comfy harness, worn beneath an oversuit, was still comfy and freedom of movement along the approach crawls wasn't affected.

The report, therefore, is:

Yep: it's easy to put on, easy to move around in and everything stays in place. There is no cutting in of the pads into my nether regions, thanks for asking.

I'm expecting the comfy nature of the harness additions to prove themselves when hanging around doing rigging for extended periods. Thrupe is mostly eco-hangers so rigging there is quick; I shall mebbe have a right hand trip in Rhino Rift soon to find out what an extended sitting is like (approximately seventeen spannered spits, 3 traverses, 5 deviations, and all without standing on the ground).

Burt said:

Isn't threre alreay a comfy seat type rigging harness, called the Navaho, out there?
:

Click to expand...

How much is it? I'm guessing it's considerably more expensive than this little set-up. It's also another bit of kit to purchase whereas this idea effectively creates two harness options while only needing to actually own one harness. I doubt whether a Navaho it will fit beneath an oversuit AND also allow you to negotiate gnat's-chuff-tight lacerating pitches, such as this one: