The quality and purpose of trip reports

Kenilworth

New member
Trip reports may be documentary, descriptive, scientific, literary, or exhibitive, and are often created under a combination of motivations. Their value depends not on the skill of the writer alone, but on the intention of the writer. For example, if they are documentary, descriptive, or scientific (by which I mean informative), there is no need to consider things like grammar during an assignation of quality. If they are literary, factualness will not be of primary value. If they are merely exhibitive, they will have very little value of any kind.

Most modern trip reports written by cavers are merely exhibitive. The trip reports found on this forum, and in the pages of US grotto publications are largely so. One could easily write a great stack of them without once entering a cave or leaving home. They have a fairly standard form:

I woke up at such and such a time and met so and so at a place. The weather was thus. We went to another place and met other people and ate certain food. We rode to the site and put on clothes and got our things together. We walked to the cave. The weather again. We had feelings at the entrance. We entered and performed various physical feats. Someone said something clever. We found the physicality of our movements less than comfortable. We realized we had forgotten some bit of hardware. Someone expressed semi-comic despair, but we made do. We ate such and such. We headed back out. Some exaggerated peril happened. We had some emotions. We got to the entrance, and into the weather, where we had some emotions again. We walked to the car and fiddled with clothes. We rode somewhere and ate something and drank some alcohol. The end.

Fill in imaginary specifics, and you can write trip reports of the acceptable standard until the cows come home.

Why is this the acceptable standard? Why are these sorts of writings encouraged and praised? At least we do not need to ask why they are written. They are part and parcel of the overwhelming narcissism of modern society. When I say they are exhibitive, I mean that, like Facebook and Instagram, their main purpose is to expose an individual to an audience. Not an individual's work, not an individual's art, not information valuable or educational or interesting or inspiring to the audience... simply the individual's existence. Why we need to announce and re-announce the mundane fact of our existence to the world of strangers who don't care and acquaintances who already know is a much bigger topic than I can tackle. So, limiting myself to trip reports, here are a list of suggestions and observations that might improve the quality of our writings and, importantly, the quality of our time spent underground.

--

Know why you are writing. If you simply want the world to know you've gone caving, fine, but realize that, properly and inevitably, almost no one cares.

Try not to exaggerate the scale and significance of your underground doings. Since our day-to-day physical surroundings are often mundane, and our interactions with the physical world take place through many layers of insulation, the enhanced perception that caving can prompt may make this difficult.

Caving is not dangerous or a sport. Caving does not make you daring, tough, or an athlete.

While both are denominations of currency in the spelean cultural economy, misery is not meritorious, and neither is originality. Relating that you got cold and sore and found a new passage (or worse, were the first woman (amputee, midget, transgender auto-mechanic, escaped zoo-monkey, etc.) to see a certain chamber (climb a certain dome, reach a certain depth, negotiate a certain squeeze, etc.)) will not make your trip report interesting or impressive.

Almost none of our physical feats underground are noteworthy.

What we observe of our surroundings is noteworthy.

What we learn is noteworthy.

What we can teach is noteworthy.

It follows that if we want to write a trip report of value, we will need to quit focusing on ourselves, and observe, learn, and think. If we do not do so, we have nothing to say, and no reason to make a report.

If writing for purposes of documentation, clarity is the primary goal. Making notes or sketches in-cave can help you create high-quality descriptions.

If writing artistically, wait a week before sharing and re-read your work, editing or discarding as needed.

--

Good trip reports are part of cave conservation. Visitors to a fragile and singular place should take as much as possible from the experience. We all do this in different ways, and writing trip reports should by no means be viewed as a requirement. But if we are able to write something informative, interesting, thought-provoking, or inspiring, we will have received full value for our time, and for the wear on the cave.

Lastly, I have written many bad trip reports, and do not wish to insult the authors of the many trip reports I have characterized as bad. Every effort that I read or write makes me hopeful and appreciative. If they're bad, I'm glad to say so, but they are also evidence that caves are inspiring places, and provide needed causation for our working with our language. If every caver who writes about caving would make an honest effort at improvement, I am confident that many real works of value, even works of art and literature, would emerge.











 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
I find most trip reports entertaining.  Some are also very useful if the destination is somewhere I wish to visit.  Others give confidence to novice cavers. 

Perhaps your problem is that you have no interest in the caves being written about and therefore they have little relevance to you personally.

There may be a wider point about cavers and writing.  It is always disappointing to look along the bookshelves and find so little on caving compared to other activities.  There are rich subject matters in caving yet to be exploited and I hope more cavers will take up the challenges of writing.  Who will be the new Casteret?
 

Kenilworth

New member
Badlad said:
Perhaps your problem is that you have no interest in the caves being written about and therefore they have little relevance to you personally.

Most trip reports tell me almost nothing about the caves involved.
 
Most UK trip reports are primarily for memory purposes of the individual/group. Most caves have been visited many times before and there's no point reinventing the wheel.
However there is often helpful indication on which bits are difficult/deserve attention, and yes reassuring reading.

If new cave is discovered/dug then there's more than just personal trip logs. usually getting surveyed etc. to good detail. This is where detail is produced.

If there's damage then it gets reported + talked about. I agree what you have said previously about photography for conservation purposes.

And if you want routefinding help you can use a publication like Mendip Underground or ask a person.

I think that's just about covered it. Oh, except for caving books, tales of food and mishaps included, that as Badlad says can be a good read.

I'd say that's a state of affairs for caving in the UK that works, although the more interaction the better.
 

Leclused

Active member
When I write a report (for club purpose) I always make a distinction in the nature of the trip. If it is just a classical visit to a cave with a bunch of other cavers then the report will be entertaining including anecdotes of the trip.

When there is a lot of SRT involved it is common within the club that the riging scheme is checked and if it is not  corresponding with the one we found in a book or so then we write down our "alternative" rigging. Mosthly the lenghts of the ropes need to be longer due to the fact the we now always try to use double anchorpoints and a lot of the old rigging scheme are based on single ancherpoints.

The non classical trips are something different because they will be userd later on to reconstruct the discovery band they are also used during the exploration. Therefor these reports are more in detail. Correct names, dates and times for example are decisive . But also other things are written down :

- the progress in the dig itself
- remarkable spots for further investigation
- airflow determination (direction, strength)
- dangerous spots (boulder chokes, lose blocks,...)
- place where material is stored and what material is in place
- required material for next trips
- required number of persions for next trips
- Animal findings (bones, bats, insects, ...)
- Archeological findngs
- Hydrological findings
- Geological findings (changes in limestone fe)
- rigging scheme
_ ...

Not all of the above things are occuring in each report of course but just to give you an idea



 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Kenilworth said:
If you simply want the world to know you've gone caving, fine, but realize that, properly and inevitably, almost no one cares.

This is clearly not true, based on the reaction to trip reports, particularly trip reports from new cavers, on this forum. Most people write trip reports partly for their own or their own groups record keeping but mostly to entertain. While I did enjoy your (entirely accurate) critique of the structure of the average trip report, you could say similar things about most creative works. If the work is being produced for entertainment (and I would suggest most reports posted by or on personal blogs fall into this category) then so what? There are plenty of places to put important documentary or discovery writings in the UK; see the BCRA. Throwaway entertaining and amusing trip reports are not a bad thing - most of them get a much better reaction than your postings so perhaps do they know why and to who they are writing, rather better than you?

At the end of the day the only way a trip report on a standard trip in Swildons is going to have any value is if it is funny.
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Kenilworth said:
Trip reports may be documentary, descriptive, scientific, literary, or exhibitive, and are often created under a combination of motivations. Their value depends not on the skill of the writer alone, but on the intention of the writer. For example, if they are documentary, descriptive, or scientific (by which I mean informative), there is no need to consider things like grammar during an assignation of quality.

Grammar aids communication (and poor grammar hinders it) so correct grammar is very important for your 'informative' works.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
andrewmc said:
Kenilworth said:
Trip reports may be documentary, descriptive, scientific, literary, or exhibitive, and are often created under a combination of motivations. Their value depends not on the skill of the writer alone, but on the intention of the writer. For example, if they are documentary, descriptive, or scientific (by which I mean informative), there is no need to consider things like grammar during an assignation of quality.

Grammar aids communication (and poor grammar hinders it) so correct grammar is very important for your 'informative' works.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to have rolled my eyes at that remark by Kenilworth above. Surely in "informative" works, the avoidance of ambiguity is worthy of consideration.
 

nearlywhite

Active member
Excellent trolling.

Actually, persuading people to write the bloody things is like drawing blood from a stone. The reason old lags want them is because they want to know what those cavers are doing which they can't for a multitude of reasons be it work, family, geography or infirmity.

I don't think you realise quite how offensive your assertions are.
 

Madness

New member
Everytime I read a thread started by Kenilworth, I can't help but wonder what he will try to provoke people with next.

As others have said, a lot of people, myself included find trip reports entertaining. I'm not interested in reading in depth scientific analysis, I want entertainment and inspiration.
 

Alex

Well-known member
Caving is not dangerous or a sport. Caving does not make you daring, tough, or an athlete.

I call BS - Give me references to back that up! Otherwise you are trolling by insulting us all, because that insults me.

As for trip reports, I personally tend only put ones on here that are genuinely interesting such as caves no one ever goes down (while also reporting the state of those caves). And other interesting systems, i.e. Mossdale. We do a more in-depth log book and trip report entry on club's forum for the less "interesting" ones.

I do agree that trip reports down Swinsto and the like could get repetitive, but hey no one is forcing you to read them!
 

Bob G

New member
[quote  ... Why we need to announce and re-announce the mundane fact of our existence to the world of strangers who don't care and acquaintances who already know is a much bigger topic than I can tackle. ..
[/quote

Ironic? Oh, yes.
 

MarkS

Moderator
Kenilworth said:
Why is this the acceptable standard? Why are these sorts of writings encouraged and praised? At least we do not need to ask why they are written. They are part and parcel of the overwhelming narcissism of modern society. When I say they are exhibitive, I mean that, like Facebook and Instagram, their main purpose is to expose an individual to an audience.

I'm not sure what trip reports you're reading. I couldn't disagree more.

I (and I believe many others) find trip reports to be a useful source of information about what trips/caves are like, a source of ideas/inspiration for trips to do, and a source of entertainment to hear other peoples views and experiences. Given they tend to be posted on club wesbites, blogs or the reports section of UKCaving, they're there for people who choose to seek them out. Hardly narcissistic.

Personally I usually write a few notes about a trip for my own benefit, a bit like a diary I suppose. If a trip has been significant in some way (e.g. exploration, a clean up, a particularly unusual trip) I try and write a bit more because I think other people might enjoy them or find them useful, just as I enjoy similar reports from other people. In these cases I might post them online.

If you don't like them, they're not hard to avoid, so there doesn't seem any real need to dish out criticism of them. Although your cynical view of a standard trip report did raise a smile.
 

Alex

Well-known member
Interesting fact as well. As part of the Matienzo expedition, you have to write a trip report even if you do not discover anything. If trip reports where of no value, why are we asked to write them? This is addition to survey notes and cave descriptions of any new passages found.

Finally you say that physical exertion and difficulty are of no consequence, I would disagree again, because if you found it difficult then the people following you after reading your trip report would find that very useful info.
 

Juan

Active member
As part of the Matienzo expedition, you have to write a trip report even if you do not discover anything.
Matienzo expedition trip reports (striving for new discoveries in over 4500 sites) are of value to possible future explorers, as well as one aspect of a formal site record. The fact that nothing new is discovered on a particular trip is just as important to document as any extensions. Future cavers can see who was involved with any particular push, how long ago it was, what problems were encountered, etc and whether it is now worthwhile having another push.
Alex's trip reports are informative and full of detail - well worth reading and publishing!
Even "tourist" trips in the Matienzo context are worth a short report - who went, difficulties, rigging, etc.
 

JasonC

Well-known member
MarkS said:
Kenilworth said:
Why is this the acceptable standard? Why are these sorts of writings encouraged and praised? At least we do not need to ask why they are written. They are part and parcel of the overwhelming narcissism of modern society. When I say they are exhibitive, I mean that, like Facebook and Instagram, their main purpose is to expose an individual to an audience.

I'm not sure what trip reports you're reading. I couldn't disagree more.....

To be fair, I think Kenilworth's main point is to consider the purpose and audience of any trip report.  Records of exploration, or seldom-visited caves (as Alex mentioned) are excellent reasons for sharing a report, as are aids to future visitors (eg recent collapses, rope lengths in popular guides being wrong etc).
I think there's also a place for more mundane reports in a club journal as it's fair to assume your mates might be interested in what you've got up to, however I can see that broadcasting unexceptional deeds to the world could be 'exhibitive' in the sense  he means.

So I don't think he's saying all TRs are crap, just that some are, and others could be improved.
Having said that, I feel cavers have a lower narcissism quotient (NQ - I've just invented a phrase :)) than the average social media user, so his critique is a little overdone.
 
Juan said:
As part of the Matienzo expedition, you have to write a trip report even if you do not discover anything.
Matienzo expedition trip reports (striving for new discoveries in over 4500 sites) are of value to possible future explorers, as well as one aspect of a formal site record.

To back that up: the summer just gone, whilst surface bashing just above the Matienzo bar, I used a log-book report from 19 years ago to confirm that a small cave we had stumbled across was in-fact one first recorded in the 1997 expedition with slightly incorrect coordinates (in the pre-GPS days), and not a new site. Someone had thought to write a couple of lines, with a sketch diagram to describe their new find back then - even though the cave was tiny and most likely insignificant - but it was a good enough description and sketch to agree with the cave presenting in front of us.
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
JasonC said:
So I don't think he's saying all TRs are crap, just that some are, and others could be improved.

Whether they are crap or not is totally irrelevant. If someone wishes to write down their memories / impressions of a trip, then all power to their elbow. The only standard that they need to live up to is the one they set themselves. Nobody is being forced to read them.  I find it quite interesting to read a novice caver's report of his first experience in doing something outside his comfort zone - it reminds me of how I felt some fifty years ago. Some trip reports seem to be written by egocentrics with the intention of demonstrating how extraordinary the writer is - one can get a mild amusement from them or not bother with them according to taste. Others give an insight into the nature of a trip, and can become useful reference material.
 

Brains

Well-known member
I enjoy the trip reports from novices as it reignites my desire to get out there and do more, and it also makes me think how I might improve the experience for the beginners I have taken / will take underground. I also enjoy the reports from places I have been before as it serves to remind me of the good times I have had, and of the places I havent been yet that I am inspired to try and get to.
Scientific reports can be dry as dust, and only of interest to the real seeker of detail, and a human element enlivens things greatly. Illustrations are also very useful as decriptive prose is not really up to the job!
Bring them on I say, if you dont like them, dont read them  ;)
 
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