Hi All, I know absolutely nothing about caving but have a couple of questions related to it, if anyone can help. I am currently shooting a documentary about UK Cryptids, it has been suggested that if indeed there exists in Britain any form of Cryptid, be that Woodwose/Bigfoot or Werewolf/Dogman, then perhaps they use caves as their base. There are hundreds of sighting in the UK and many more myths about such creatures. Sighting are coming in daily and the first video evidence was captured only 3 months ago. I have interviewed many many witnesses and read dozens of reports about what was seen, here in the UK we have nothing that can compare to such a creature, typically standing anywhere between 5-8 feet, so mistaken identity for a bear/moose or coyote is easy to rule out.

My question is,

1. Are there enough caves, cave systems and or mines in the UK, to support such a creature, we have no idea on the number of these creatures but let's use 1000 creatures across the country. I don't know if mines count as part of some cave systems but I thought I'd ask.

2. Are there any estimates of potential caves/cave systems throughout the UK that remain yet undiscovered?

I know it's an odd question, and somewhat vague in detail, but any help is greatly appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9-QEmu3Z8Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9-QEmu3Z8Y

thanks in advance, Chris Turner

I'm not part of the living dead yet, so I can only assume I've not yet met one of these things.

there's a potential for them to exist if they run away from all human contact and disappear into thin air when they run into a wall.

most of our caves are known, but there are many undiscovered sections which lie beyond water, boulder or tight restrictions. which would very much hamper these 8 foot monsters, unless they always run away and run through walls.


my questions are:

1) are there enough buildings in towns that these creatures use when everyone's out at work, there could be thousands of creatures crawling around in the attic spaces of your terraced houses.

2) are there any estimates of potential attic spaces throughout the UK that have remained unused for years?

I know its a disappointing response but I think there could be trolls in them there hills...


Thanks in Advance, GZ.

docmaker said:

2. Are there any estimates of potential caves/cave systems throughout the UK that remain yet undiscovered?

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I think it's 657 at the last count, so if there are 1,000 creatures they'd need to share....

Well thats a pickle and no mistake...
We UK Cavers tend to be a skeptical bunch requiring hard evidence.
I feel confident in saying that throughout recorded history, and the archaeological record of our country, no evidence of such creatures has been verified. Our known caves are well known and explored, and the mines where accessible likewise. The presnce of a large unknown mammal - homind is highly unlikely. We have no wild wolves (yet), or bears to misidentify. We do seem to have a number of big cat reports from some locations, but no evidence of a troglodyte existence for them.
I can only conclude that the antiquarians covered up the evidence in cohorts with the ruling intelligensia elite and the masons, or the reptillians have eaten them all?

There's quite a large fish living in Goyden. It wouldn't be able to stand, nor is it 6-8ft long.
It's conceivable there are bigger fish elsewhere. Does that help?

Also, I photographed this coming out of Giants one cold winter:

docmaker said:

There are hundreds of sighting in the UK and many more myths about such creatures. Sighting are coming in daily and the first video evidence was captured only 3 months ago.

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Really? Sources please.

It might help if you can provide a precise definition of a "cryptid".

I'm trained in biology and it's not a word I understand . . .

Don't eat the yellow snow.

Kevlar said:

Also, I photographed this coming out of Giants one cold winter:

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I'd better hide! It might be in the same room as me!

Cryptozoology

The last refuge of the terminally deluded.....

Unknown large animals like yetis or werewolves living in British caves?  I somehow don't think it likely.

The problem with the idea of large unknown creatures living or surviving in caves is that they have to have something to eat.  And there's not a lot to eat in dark caves.  Not enough to sustain a large animal, anyway.  There's no light down there, so plants can't grow - that means no large herbivores and hence no large carnivores to prey on 'em.  So forget Conan Doyle's giant blind cave bears evolving in the darkness over the millenia.  They would have starved to death before they evolved those giant blind eyeballs.

The alternative, of course, is for your monstrous beasties to hide or shelter deep in the caves and come out at intervals to feast on the local sheep or villagers in the neighbourhood.  The problem there is that to survive they would have to have been doing it - coming out and feeding, that is - regularly over a long period of time.  And I don't think that they could do that without the locals becoming aware of it.  And as far as I know there is no reliable evidence of this.

So small creatures able to live on the food washed into the caves, and birds and bats, foxes and suchlike that shelter in the caves and come out to feed - yes.  But the only thing like the Bigfoot of legend that you are likely to find is probably a cave diver with his fins on...

Another factor against this idea is that most of the major areas of cave in the UK are in limestone areas that have significant deposits of economic minerals that have ben mined for centuries. Miners have been poking round in caves for a long time in order to locate said minerals, so any cave large enough for a human-sized creature to get into in would certainly been investigated by miners, and when they found unusual things they got reported; for example the remains of ice-age megafauna. As far as the Peak District goes, I'm not aware of any reports of miners finding evidence of humanoid creatures living in the local caves, or any reports of such creatures being seen in the vicinity of caves and I'm pretty well informed on the mining history here.

As for undiscovered cave systems, we may not have discovered everything but after a century or more of intensive surface searching  by cavers,I very much doubt there are any entrances large enough for a human-sized creature to get in and out of that haven't already had a caver ratch into them to "see if they go". All the big UK discoveries of recent years have required digging out, and often have a significant vertical element to them that you wouldn't want to negotiate in darkness.

Occam's razor says "naaah"....

I reckon it's a Halloween wind up.

alastairgott said:

Kevlar said:

Also, I photographed this coming out of Giants one cold winter:

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I'd better hide! It might be in the same room as me!

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No good hiding. It'll always be watching you, following you....

Let's not be too hasty ... I'm pretty convinced that I've seen a Woodwose or two - these two look familiar

I've had many sightings of cryptid (or are they cryptic?) hairy beasts in caves, some of them scuttle about in to small crevices and start burrowing, at least that's what I assume they are doing going on the mud and rocks that tend to get shoved backwards.. 

Forget cryptids, one evening in a small Mendip village I encountered the Gott Zone! He looked guilty for some reason

Pitlamp said:

It might help if you can provide a precise definition of a "cryptid".

I'm trained in biology and it's not a word I understand . . .

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well according to that useful tertiary resource Wikipedia it means "hidden animal". So speaking as a properly qualified zoologist not a pseudoscienctific cryptozoologist I would on this basis consider species  like moles to be cryptids. Tardigrades would also fit the bill but all species I can fit into such a discription are well below the 5-8ft size guide.

I think the short answer is 'forget it mate'.

I don't know, there are likely plenty of small undiscovered caves off the beaten track but are likely to be found in sandstone rather than limestone as cavers are not normally interested in non-lime stone areas. I only say that because a few years ago me and Chris walked into some new and likely unknown and at the very least un-documented sandstone caves (a few of which where walking height and 2 were over 20m long). These could be used as base for a large creature I guess these sort of caves could be suitable, though I doubt anything other than sheep live there now. However, despite this, due to our small land mass there really are not places remote enough to fulfil the large roaming area such a creature would require.

The caves in question are in Tripsdale on the North York moors.