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UK Cave systems, discovered and undiscovered

mikem

Well-known member
but apprently there are mines (around Cannock Chase):
http://karlshuker.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/seeking-trolls-on-cannock-chase.html

Speleotron said:
Forget cryptids, one evening in a small Mendip village I encountered the Gott Zone! He looked guilty for some reason :p
From another of Shuker's posts:
Researching Somerset fairy hounds, Ruth Tongue noted a modern sighting near Priddy. The eyewitness was a man who had seen two huge dogs, taller than Irish wolfhounds but with a rough white coat and red ears, walking by him, on the other side of the road, making no noise. According to local lore, he had been very lucky, because if they had walked by him on the same side of the road, or had uttered any sound, he would have surely died.
Mike
 

docmaker

New member
I don't know, there are likely plenty of small undiscovered caves off the beaten track but are likely to be found in sandstone rather than limestone as cavers are not normally interested in non-lime stone areas. I only say that because a few years ago me and Chris walked into some new and likely unknown and at the very least un-documented sandstone caves (a few of which where walking height and 2 were over 20m long). These could be used as base for a large creature I guess these sort of caves could be suitable, though I doubt anything other than sheep live there now. However, despite this, due to our small land mass there really are not places remote enough to fulfil the large roaming area such a creature would require.

The caves in question are in Tripsdale on the North York moors.

Thanks Alex, much appreciated. That type of small cave in a remote area would be more than suitable for a creature to use as it's base, somewhere safe, dry and within a decent distance of food and water. I would agree there are challenging arguments against such a creature existing today, however, hundreds of sightings suggest otherwise, many coming from decades ago when a man's word was his oath, before the time of youtube fame seeking etc. I personally believe it to be some kind of undiscovered form of primate, the descriptions support this idea and though descriptions vary, it is mostly described and bi-pedal, upright, not knuckle dragging, some reports describe huge facial jaw muscles throwing Neanderthal into the mix.

However, despite this, due to our small land mass there really are not places remote enough to fulfil the large roaming area such a creature would require.

I think this part of the argument against is the weakest, there are miles and miles of remote forest and countryside, particularly in Scotland, for example Galloway Forest Park is 30 square miles, Northumberland has one at 24 square miles, in fact there are many. However, there is no reason to believe that this species requires a mass of land to survive, look at humans, most stay within their town, take away the car and most would barely leave the house or office. There are lot's of human foragers that survive purely on what they find in the wild, all it requires is the knowledge and skill, this, in their case has been developed over thousands of years. Their diet is likely varied, and if they do eat meat or have adapted to eat meat then there are ample sources at those numbers, along with grasses, roots, nuts, berries, fish, barks, fruit, mushrooms and other fungus, it's endless really.

I personally think we are dealing with smaller numbers too, perhaps in the low hundreds, I think they traverse certain parts of the country seasonally, like other animals they have the knowledge of what food is plentiful, where and when. They travel unseen, by night and the early hours. They use the path of least resistance, using rail lines, canal systems, power lines and other such corridors. I think it likely they take advantage of old disused underground corridors, old rail lines etc. Over the years they would have to adapt to the changing landscape and in doing so develop more skills and understanding. For example, Gorillas are surprising game wardens by actively avoiding poachers, even destroying their snares and traps, essentially we are underestimating this species like many before it.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll look further into it.
 

cooleycr

Active member
I think that there are large carnivorous beasts living in the Peak District.

On one occasion a couple of us dropped a shaft at the top of Winnats Pass and found that it was full of sheep carcases so obviously the local farmer was feeding something down there....

Was it The Thing?? (don't know if the farmer looks like Donald Pleasance?)  :-\

 

AR

Well-known member
One word, and that's bones.

Since the 18th century at least, antiquarians, geologists and palaeontologists have been enthusiastically exploring caves and mines looking for ancient bones; UK museums are full of such finds including many species now extinct in the UK. Certainly since the 19th century, bone finds from caves have been examined with a careful taxonomical eye by many researchers so if there was an anthropoid species managing to cling on at the very margins of civilisation, we would expect its remains to turn up at some point among the finds from around the country.

As far as I'm aware, every non-sapiens hominid find in this country has been identified as erectus, neanderthalis, or fraudulentis. To produce a case for an unknown hominid species to have survived into the modern day without managing to leave a single bone anywhere takes some very, very, special pleading. Occam's razor is still saying "naah"!

I would also point out that the assertion that " a man's word was his oath" in times past does not hold up to inspection, there is ample evidence that our ancestors were just as inclined to lie, dissemble, exaggerate, and fabricate as people are now....
 

adam

Member
I once spied a very unusual looking cryptid in the Hall of the Mountain King. It was a rotund beastie, sporting a fine pair of wellingtons and displaying both male and female sexual characteristics.

I also came across this cryptic bodyless creature in Whitewell Pot. He was so chilled out I even managed to get a selfie with him.
 

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JasonC

Well-known member
A quote from Dr Shuker's site: "Persistent sightings of troll-like entities in the forests of Cannock Chase, Staffordshire, ..."
- and I would say there are plenty of troll-like entities to be sighted not too far from here too...
 

Oceanrower

Active member
AR said:
One word, and that's bones.

I'll give you another word. Kids.

Every hole in Britain that is fractionally larger than a small child has, at some point, been visited by a small child.

Guaranteed.
 

mikem

Well-known member
Certainly all the accessible holes in Engand (I was going to say "easily", but kids get to quite a lot of other places...)

It's even made the papers:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/are-there-a-tribe-of-cavemen-living-underneath-cannock-233880

Although, watch "Storyville: Exposed: Magicians, Psychics & Frauds" on BBC iplayer to see how much checking of facts you can expect from journalists.

Previous discussion on shafts at Cannock Chase: http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=6668.0
Dick Slee's Cave, which is marked on the Ordnance Survey, was actually a turf hut from the 18th Century,

Mike
 
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