BCA image library for Press and Media enquiries

[Chris J]

Serveral photographers in the caving community have helped me (with BCA media liason hat on) over the past 9months or so by providing images to press and magazines when they've wanted to run articles on caving.
Each time this has happened it has occured to me that really BCA needs some sort of image library which press and media can use in these scenarios.

Firstly lets be clear - this is not about damaging the ability of some photographers to sell their excellent images to the national press. Those pictures attract a premium because they are unique and tell part of a story.

Instead when the press run a short generic article about caving and they want a few nice pictures to use I've been making sure that caving is shown in its best light. My theory is that if left to their own devices then the media would simply use an old stock image. This does nothing for us (cavers in general) or up and coming photographers.

So I would like to create an online BCA image library which I can point journalists and editors at when they want photos. They would still need permission from the photographer in order to use the photos so no one would be giving up any control - it would just save me from sending lots of emails around.

What do people think?

Also would Flickr be a suitable place for this to be hosted? There are already excellent photos on their and presumably a new 'photostream' (is that the right word?) could be created for the BCA image library which people could just add their photos to?

 

[Chris J]

OK - so I've jumped the gun....

http://www.flickr.com/groups/bcaimagelibrary/

Good idea? - bad idea?

 

[axbridgecaver]

The Mendip Cave Registry & Archive (MCRA) has already set this up for Mendip Caves so far 1071 photographs on line with about 1000 more to add in the very near future -

http://www.mcra.org.uk/photoarchive/browse.php

In addition there is also a MCRA Flicke page featuring many Mendip photographs -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendipcaveregistryarchive/sets

Please have a look.

 

[SamT]

seems like a reasonable idea to me, could there be a mechanism for the press to pay a small fee for the use of a photo that gets directed back to the original photographer...

How does Getty Images work - I think they have a flickr type of thing going on.

Perhaps even worth contacting them. I think they are one of the main players in image libraries for the press.

Be worth hearing from the guys who actually take photos - Rob, Robbie, Paul etc etc.

 

[Chris J]

The Mendip Cave Registry & Archive (MCRA) has already set this up for Mendip Caves so far 1071 photographs on line with about 1000 more to add in the very near future -

http://www.mcra.org.uk/photoarchive/browse.php

In addition there is also a MCRA Flicke page featuring many Mendip photographs -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendipcaveregistryarchive/sets

Please have a look.

Are you saying this is an image library for the press to use when they want photos of Mendip caves? Have these images appeared in the Press already?

Sam - im trying not to discourage the media and if they have to pay for a generic photo then they will either not bother or grab one from their own stock.  Those photgraphers have all allowed me to use images as its perceived as good for BCA and good for caving in general. Sorry but I'm not trying to start a business here. Just save myself (and any future BCA media liason officers) some admin.

 

[SamT]

Soz Chris, don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting you start a business, just wondering if any cash could be passed back to the original photographer (not yourself). I'm all for screwing the press for cash. In my (limited) experience, I've always been under the impression that a hack (or genuinely interested and intelligent journalist) was always willing to bung a few quid at a story. Perhaps things are different in this age of posterity!!.

I mentioned Getty images because of this...

http://www.flickr.com/gettyimages

and it seems to me that the press often go to Getty for their images.

Quote from the flickr page..

Stock photography is a collection or archive of images that can be licensed for use. It?s a way for companies or individuals to purchase photographs without having to hire a photographer for a specific shoot.

Given that there are billions of photos on Flickr already and we?ve heard all sorts of stories about Flickr members being contacted about selling their photographs, we decided to partner with a stock photography expert, Getty Images.

There are lots of image users out there that want to do the right thing, paying Flickr members for their hard work and beautiful, creative photography.

 

[damian]

Good idea, Chris.

 

[Chris J]

Hi Sam,

It would basically be up the the individual photographers to make arrangements with the press/media. We (BCA) wouldn't in anyway be licencing the images ourselves then passing them on.
It's really just about providing a space to display images and contact details of the photographers so that the press know who to contact. I can then direct enquiries about images to the flickrgroup.

Put that way its a great way for a budding photographer to gain exposure and maybe get one of their photos in a national newspaper.
If they want to try and get some money back from the press then good luck to them.

cheers,
Chris 

 

[langcliffe]

I think that this is an excellent idea, but I think that it is important that each photo be accurately and comprehensively tagged. Once the library has a reasonable number of images in it, it should be easy for a potential user to find an image for his selected subject.

 

[SamT]

Hi Sam,

It would basically be up the the individual photographers to make arrangements with the press/media. We (BCA) wouldn't in anyway be licencing the images ourselves then passing them on.
It's really just about providing a space to display images and contact details of the photographers so that the press know who to contact. I can then direct enquiries about images to the flickrgroup.

Put that way its a great way for a budding photographer to gain exposure and maybe get one of their photos in a national newspaper.
If they want to try and get some money back from the press then good luck to them.

cheers,
Chris

Cool, I get ya now. Going back to the original question then.. I say...

Good idea. 

 

[cap n chris]

FWIW the following info was new to me when [well known climbing company] made an enquiry to pay me handsomely for a picture I'd taken (sadly I was unable to oblige their technical requirements and hence lost out on a four figure sum):

"We will accept photos shot on a variety of formats, however, we want everything submitted to us downsized or scanned at the following specifications: 144 dpi, 10"x15", saved as a jpeg compressed at the quality of 12. Photos are held in our collection at this size for layout purposes. Will will contact you for the raw digital file, the slide or neg if selected for usage. The following meta/XMP data should be embedded in all photos in the following file information fields: Author - photographer's name (do NOT send your digital photos without the photo credit embedded!): Copyright notice - your current email, phone and address: Description - a brief caption describing who, what, when, where.

When naming photos, keep the file names to no more than 20 characters. Digital photos must be taken with a minium of 6 mega pixels, ideally shot in raw format. No photoshop please, with the exception of simple levels adjustment. We want to maintain a journalistic approach. No layered photos; RGB colour space".

 

[Tony_B]

Firstly lets be clear - this is not about damaging the ability of some photographers to sell their excellent images to the national press.

This is exactly what your idea will do. If the press, or anyone else, can get a freebie or a cheap pic from a pool of donated pics, rather than paying proper money, they'll do so.

Who is going to administer this and ensure that pictures are paid for, at appropriate rates? And that any use is restricted to that agreed?

There is a vast difference in fees for picture use depending on size, circulation, editorial or advertising and so on. No-one makes a fortune selling caving pics because the demand is so small but shooting underground takes a lot of time, effort and skill and any picture editor wanting to use cave photos should be made to understand that and pay up accordingly, not be given a hard-won pic for free or for peanuts on the spurious grounds that 'it's good for the image of caving'. 

Despite what picture researchers will tell you they all have a budget for pictures but of course they are delighted if they can blag them.

Why not simply maintain a database of competent cave photographers who can supply images when required? 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Why not simply maintain a database of competent cave photographers who can supply images when required? 

That sounds like a plan, with a few thumbnails displayed as bait? Who would decide who goes into the database?

 

[langcliffe]

This is exactly what your idea will do. If the press, or anyone else, can get a freebie or a cheap pic from a pool of donated pics, rather than paying proper money, they'll do so.

Surely, it's simple a matter of watermarking the photos, and having a contact for each of them?

 

[Rob]

All my "good" caving photos are on my Flickr account, and they are all low res.
People can search by cave name or area, in general they are well tagged.
My contact details are on my account, and i have in the past sold photos to media who were searching Flickr. However not as many as i would have expected.
A Flickr group specifically for BCA people to send out to Media is not a bad idea. However, just telling the Media to search Flickr would give them access to many more photos. Yes, they'd have to be slightly intellegent with how they search, but i'm sure most media people are good enough at this.
And if you do want/need to give them a specific Group, the UKCaving one is pretty good...
But i'm happy to comply if it becomes the norm, and if it gets promoted properly.

 

[barrabus]

There is a great photo by Robbie Shone of Sam Allshorn ascending Boxhead Pot in today's Daily Telegraph newspaper.

It is also on the website.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/8259806/Potholers-investigate-unexplored-network-of-limestone-caves-under-northern-England.html?image=1

 

[barrabus]

...and flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robbieshone/5313105480/#

 

[Gina]

And Mail Online with more of a story

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1347451/Cavers-excavate-warren-underground-passages-north-England.html

 

[Sid]

99% of our current content is free for all to use. Full conditions are on the website and i am always looking for Mendip related photos to add to the archive.
Thanks
Paul

The Mendip Cave Registry & Archive (MCRA) has already set this up for Mendip Caves so far 1071 photographs on line with about 1000 more to add in the very near future -

http://www.mcra.org.uk/photoarchive/browse.php

In addition there is also a MCRA Flicke page featuring many Mendip photographs -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendipcaveregistryarchive/sets

Please have a look.

Are you saying this is an image library for the press to use when they want photos of Mendip caves? Have these images appeared in the Press already?

Sam - im trying not to discourage the media and if they have to pay for a generic photo then they will either not bother or grab one from their own stock.  Those photgraphers have all allowed me to use images as its perceived as good for BCA and good for caving in general. Sorry but I'm not trying to start a business here. Just save myself (and any future BCA media liason officers) some admin.

 

[Chris J]

Hi all,

I had a chat with Robbie Shone on Friday evening and understand the concerns that professional photographers have about this idea.

Firstly this idea is still under review and I would like to hear the comments and ideas of all who have experience in this field, I certainly dont want to damage anyone's lively hood.

I also need to make a few things clear

1) I have presently been approached about 4 times in the last 6 months (i.e. not a lot). Each time is has been related to a generic caving story (e.g. a fitness magazine running a story on caving) or the BBC Thrill seeker website (which used to have a picture of trees!!).

2) I have never been approached when the story is about a particular cave. E.g. if they are running a story on a recent expedition or a new discovery then they will get their photos from the people who are part of the story (inc photographers on the expedition.  BCA will not help (and probably can't) in this scenario. I believe the value of the photo comes from the story it is representing.

3) We are never approached for images for books, posters, bill boards etc... I envisage this library used for press and magazines or websites and when they are running generic caving articles.

4) We really only need a very small number of stock images (40-50) max. A selection of photos which show the different aspects of caving and probably not even describing the cave they were taken in. Perhaps image 'library' is the wrong turn of phrase?

5) one option might be to limit the number of photos each caver could place in the library (5?). This doesnt need to be a large online market place where professional and amateur photgraphers can under cut each other - its a few dozen generic photos I can point a journalist at.

6) I understand this might be seen as the thin end of the wedge but flickr is already out there and Im sure that the reality of this proposal will not actually impact the professional cave photographers.

Tony - I'd love to talk to you properly about this. Do you want to PM me with a phone number?