BCA resources directed towards 'commercial caving' (spin off from CNCC thread)
- Thread starter Andy Sparrow
- Start date
Les W
Active member
mmilner said:Ditto. I see from the new BCA web site (very nice btw) that the 5th. October 2013 minutes are still only the draft version. It is 8th Feb 2014 now and the most recent meeting was on 11th January 2014. Why is it taking so long to get the minutes out?
I don't know the answer to that question, but I would assume that the Secretary having a full time job teaching, coupled with a new baby, will be having some demands on his time...
I shouldn't think the minutes are his highest priority...
In the climate of this thread I will probably get shot down for being thick but for my clarification.
When did the BCA become the Governing body for British caving instead of the Representative body.
Is the BCA constitution available online - cannot see it on the website.
Jopo
When did the BCA become the Governing body for British caving instead of the Representative body.
Is the BCA constitution available online - cannot see it on the website.
Jopo
Les W
Active member
Jopo said:
Hi Jopo
The constitution is in the Documents section:
http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:documents:bca_constitution
As to BCA's status, it isn't at all clear from the constitution, but it seems to say that it "represents" cavers so I guess its the representative body
Stu
Active member
Les W said:mmilner said:Ditto. I see from the new BCA web site (very nice btw) that the 5th. October 2013 minutes are still only the draft version. It is 8th Feb 2014 now and the most recent meeting was on 11th January 2014. Why is it taking so long to get the minutes out?
I don't know the answer to that question, but I would assume that the Secretary having a full time job teaching, coupled with a new baby, will be having some demands on his time...
I shouldn't think the minutes are his highest priority...
Ok, here goes. Ready for the flaming of all flamings and I want to be clear I'm in no way taking a pop at Damian, who I sort of know and have had the occasion to cave with at times and is a very decent bloke...
When my kids were on their way I took myself away from all my outside obligations because I knew full well that I wouldn't or couldn't devote the time needed to deal with them sufficiently.
Even though I'm somewhat critical of BCA (and CNCC) my grievance is with that particular body or the particular office. It's not with the individual, which is why when some of the name calling that goes on here, it is very much out of order. That said the vast majority of people do seem to hold the officers and officials of the named bodies with some due deference and respect for what is a difficult job - even though I can feel very strongly about a topic. With this in mind I feel that it is a two way street and that officials should probably execute the duty to which they've obligated themselves to do.
And no, I couldn't do a better job. I have young family and specifically dropped outside interference so I don't end up doing a half-arsed job of it. Under the circumstances Damian does do a good job - four months does seem a stretch though.
Gollum
Member
Bottlebank said:I didn't mean the ones at Garlands, I meant the ones in Upper East Passage and the aven above base camp chamber.
Perhaps they're no longer there or perhaps you haven't looked hard enough
Yes they are still there and there are others within other systems in Derbyshire which were placed to reduce groups blocking pitches like Garlands in Giants. There was a time caving was very popular and instructors tried to find venues and pitches that were out of the way of recreational/club cavers i.e Hells Well in Devonshire Mine and the pitches in P8 before the first pitch.
I am a caver who instruct for a living who is fed up of arguing with instructors and cavers when we should be working together for the good of caving.
nickwilliams
Well-known member
Jopo said:
'Governing Body' is a term used by the Sports Council (or whatever they are called this week) to describe those who it sees as their contact points with a particular sport. They will only deal with one GB for each sport nationally, and if you are not able to call yourselves a GB then they won't consider you as the representative body for your sport.
In the sense that BCA acts only on the instructions of its members, and is constitutionally barred from telling them what to do, it's not a body which actually does any 'governing'.
BCA Council Minutes undergo a clear, defined process agreed and debated over a period of about 12 months and then approved by an AGM. Basically Minutes are published in draft only once they have been approved by Executive. FWIW I spent Saturday 11th January at the Council Meeting (including 6hrs travelling too!) and then spent most of Sunday 12th typing up the Minutes and dealing with actions arising from them. They were finished and circulated to Executive two days later (14th January) after I'd finished proof-reading them. I am still waiting for one person's approval before I can publish. As soon as I do, I will.
As for the October Minutes, they were approved at the January meeting and I could have altered them immediately after on the website. However I knew the website was going to switch to an alternative version and I'd have to do it again, so I decided not to bother. The new website came on line a week ago and I confess I'd forgotten. I'll do it now.
As for the October Minutes, they were approved at the January meeting and I could have altered them immediately after on the website. However I knew the website was going to switch to an alternative version and I'd have to do it again, so I decided not to bother. The new website came on line a week ago and I confess I'd forgotten. I'll do it now.
And I tried ... I made very clear that I wanted someone else to take on the Secretary's role when I was up for re-election last year, but in the absence of anyone else being willing, was forced to continue. I AM stopping at the end of this term and if nobody's there to take over, BCA will not have a secretary.stu said:
exsumper
New member
damian said:exsumper said:I can't quite believe I'm reading this!Just a few tips to recap
Treat everyone with respect and in an honest and open manner and you won't have any problems!
Why not? If the BCA and CNCC had been open and honest about plans for extending access agreements to commercial outfits, there would be no problem. Its only now that we almost know the truth!
As I've said so many times previously, I only get irate when I'm lied to and deceived!
nickwilliams said:
I think the problem is that the Sports Council is unable to conceive of a sport which is not competitive. In the majority of sports the "governing body" is the one which sets the rules for competitions, league tables, etc. The GB also tends to say that, unless the person is a member of the GB and pays a sub. to them, they are not eligible to take part in any competitions arranged by the local league. (e.g. you must have paid a sub. to the Badminton Association of England in order to be eligible to play in your club's team in the South Derbyshire Badminton League - which means the club puts pressure on its members to pay up because it wants to have the strongest team and win all the matches.)
In the days when caving was given grants by the Sports Council (or SportUK, SportEngland or whatever it changed its name to) grants could only be given to the "Governing Body" - so NCA became de facto the GB as far as the sports council was concerned.
A useful safeguard is that if your sport has a GB then if there is legislation which may affect your sport you have the right to kick up a fuss and be listened to. This has worked in our favour when Health and Safety attempted to insist that training in SRT could take place only if the trainee was lifelined. NCA, together with other sports which used SRT-type practices, were able to persuade the powers that be that this was OK for industry but was not suitable for our particular situation.
We were also able to use the "GB" status of NCA when the Adventure Activities Licensing legislation came into being. It meant cavers could decide in consultation how we wished to set up training schemes for instructors, as opposed to having them imposed upon us by officialdom. We were also able to insist that there should be no requirement for ordinary cavers to be "qualified".
The point is that BCA, as a strong representative (or governing body) for caving, is our best defence against officialdom. But that depends on ordinary cavers supporting BCA and making their wishes felt in a sensible manner and accepting that there will be some issues on which we disagree and also accepting that if we take part in a democratic process BCA will do its best to put forward a concensus view where possible.
