Belt or Harness? In 2023. Pros/Cons.

[cap n chris]

Interested to know what people are doing now we're properly, yes properly, into the C21st and have (hopefully) moved on from the days of balertwine, hemp, manly beards, and illiteracy. It has been seven years since a caver/IRATA chum first coined the expression (previously unknown to me) that "All cavers' belts should be gathered together in a huge pile and burnt". Caving started off with people holding small candles on the fat end of a wooden spoon with the other end in their gobs so they could scout out the way ahead while crawling, then helmet-mounted carbide became "de rigeur" until a quantum leap (and yes I do know what that is and am using it correctly, imo) brought into play the belt-mounted Oldham/Acidburner/Alkaliburner electric options, soon bettered by the unleaky Speleotechnics variant, the most long-lived version being the FX2 which I believe may still be in use in outdoor centres almost fifty years after incept, superceded pretty much at the turn of the millennium by the immediate adoption into caving of LED lighting, quickly reverting to being helmet-mounted once again. Because belt-mounted batteries no longer seem to be a thing, it stands to reason (you'd have thought) that belts are no longer a thing too, people presumably moving on to the PPE of a harness and minimising the likelihood of the numerous perils of falling while wearing a belt attached to a rope (or just a rope if you'm proper 'ard). I'd be very interested to know what the new guns' prefer as we are now part way through the second decade of the third millennium. Do people still smoke clay pipes, wear blakey-studded vibram boots, spats, plus fours and a knitted waistcoat and hat, or has the British caving scene become a bit more European in its methodology nowadays? Vote away. Happy to add any options which may have been overlooked.

 

[alanw]

I wear a belt all the time, a harness as well for SRT. I need a Warmbac XL+ oversuit for my height and shoulder width, the belt stops the waist from being too baggy and allows me to carry a camera in a hard case under my oversuit, below my ribs, without it falling down my legs. I also have a loop on the belt, I find hanging a tackle sack there preferable to using the loops on my harness.

 

[pwhole]

The tick colour in the boxes is almost the same colour as the background when the forum is set to the Dark theme, and I could barely tell if it was ticked or not. Can they be made red or blue or something so they stand out on most backgrounds?

 

[TheBitterEnd]

Belt of shame?

Should be a good one, hang on while make some 🍿 and pull up a chair.

 

[langcliffe]

"that belts are no longer a thing too, people presumably moving on to the PPE of a harness and minimising the likelihood of the numerous perils of falling while wearing a belt attached to a rope (or just a rope if you'm proper 'ard)"

I don't understand. Why must one attach a rope to a belt one is wearing? Why, like alanw, cannot one use a belt for what it is intended for?

 

[undergroundHP]

Cavers belts are still widely used by outdoor activity providers for clients when caving and gorge walking.
Used on steep terrain where a rope may be attached for either confidence or to prevent a tumble, but without the risk of being free-hanging.
Easy to put on/ off, quick to check, good for a handheld help on a "step"
Also as mentioned above. it keeps suits tucked in around the waist.

 

[Rachel]

Harness for any sort of attaching myself to a rope.

Belt for keeping my oversuit crotch above my knees in situations where a harness isn't needed.

 

[Wayland Smith]

Still got a "Belay belt" from Caving Supplies. Years of life left in it yet.

 

[cap n chris]

Cavers belts are still widely used by outdoor activity providers for clients when caving and gorge walking.

Probably not for much longer; belts cost more than harnesses. By a significant margin, too.

 

[cap n chris]

Still got a "Belay belt" from Caving Supplies. Years of life left in it yet.

Do you have an image of the original sepia advert, perchance? ;-)

 

[Babyhagrid]

I use a sling a crab as a belt. With cows tails for traverses like the OFD bolt traverse and Indiana highway in draenen . And for ladders.

And I have used the crab as a descender in a pinch. Hurts the ribs but really hard to fall out of.

But for proper rope work I use a harness and belt. As I like to take my harness off and want my oversuit to stay up

 

[PeteHall]

I feel naked caving without a belt.

It holds my guts in place and is a convenient place to hang things (camera, tackle bag when crawling, lead when diving).

The only time I cave without a belt is if I take it off for a particularly tight or snaggy squeeze.

I did actually tie a lifeline onto my belt the other week for a fixed ladder (Redhouse Lane entrance), but generally I never tie a rope to my belt. If I need to tie onto something, I'll typically be in a full SRT kit. I'm pretty slack about life-lining on ladders, as I usually only use them for short pitches and so far I've got away with it!

Regarding cost, I keep the old buckles when a belt wears out and sew them into a new (free) bit of webbing, so cost is minimal (the cost of the thread in fact). I have enough webbing for a few more years and I'm sure I'll have acquired some more before it runs out.

 

[cap n chris]

Cavers belts are still widely used by outdoor activity providers for clients when caving and gorge walking.
Used on steep terrain where a rope may be attached for either confidence or to prevent a tumble, but without the risk of being free-hanging.
Easy to put on/ off, quick to check, good for a handheld help on a "step"
Also as mentioned above. it keeps suits tucked in around the waist.

Do you reckon that will change now new sit harnesses are cheaper than new belts?

 

[Babyhagrid]

Do you reckon that will change now new sit harnesses are cheaper than new belts?

Is that including the maillon to join it up?

 

[mikem]

Just cut the leg loops off then ;-)

(Guess we are talking climbing rather than caving harnesses for cheapness)

 

[cap n chris]

Is that including the maillon to join it up?

Nope.

Proper sit harness for positioning...
£33.71

climbing harness beal - Google Shopping

www.google.com

or,...

Cavers' belt for clipping your incense burner and mile-wide sense of entitlement to..

£37.05

Warmbac Caving Belt - Inglesport

Technical Equipment Retailers to the Sport and Professional markets for Caving, Climbing, Rope Access, Work at Height and Rescue since 1977

www.inglesport.com

 

[Babyhagrid]

A sling and a crab is less than £20 and works as a belt as well as it's individual components.

And it's rated. So fine for being belayed on 😉

 

[andrewmcleod]

I use a Black Diamond trouser belt (rather cheaper than a harness btw) I bought years ago whenever I might not be wearing a harness at some point. It both holds up my oversuit if I'm walking up a hill without my arms in it and it lets me clip my bag to it for dragging places.

What else would you do with a belt?

I haven't ticked anything in the poll because I'm not really sure what is being asked, given that belts and harnesses are different things used for different purposes.

 

[Loki]

For what use of each item? I find srt quite uncomfortable with a belt so harness it is.
Ladders, meh, just tie rope round waist if it’s short. Harness if it’s long or several pitches.
Cave with no pitches but still need to drag a bag- belt. No point destroying a harness.

 

[mikem]

The "suggested" harness will last less caving time than the belt though, so not value for money.

Petzl & various climbing companies do trouser belts for between £10 & £15, and you can get work positioning belts with gear loops for similar

Alp Designs do a version, although with plastic buckle, for £18:

Alp Design Matos Caving Belt - Inglesport

Technical Equipment Retailers to the Sport and Professional markets for Caving, Climbing, Rope Access, Work at Height and Rescue since 1977

www.inglesport.com