Cave_Troll
Active member
just out of interest, how was the bloke supposed to tell if it were a valid ticket or one from london last year?
Car Parking Charges
- Thread starter hoehlenforscher
- Start date
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Cave_Troll said:
That's his problem - he could always opt to go and get a real job and earn an honest living.
Just because some beaurocrat decided to give road tax an incomprehensible name doesn't mean it's not road tax. I understand that all road users have rights (obviously) and in the context of this discussion any mention of cyclists vs drivers is a red herring. (I cycle too, incidentally.) The question is why should people be expected to pay to park on a public road which they've already paid for the use of that road via their road tax?
graham
New member
Pitlamp said:
Because experience has shown that if unlimited parking access is allowed in popular areas then congestion becomes worse and everyone suffers, thus some method of rationing access must be found & charging is, as yet, the only successful method known.
Check out the Tragedy of the Commons.
EwanCameron
New member
I parked in Bakewell 2 years back going to a meeting
Paid for 2hrs from 08:30
I put my ticket upside down sadly
I came back to my car 4hrs later as meeting overran and had a ticket
However they gave me my ticket at 09:45 I sent a copy of the ticket in to them and made a complaint they let me off
Paid for 2hrs from 08:30
I put my ticket upside down sadly
I came back to my car 4hrs later as meeting overran and had a ticket
However they gave me my ticket at 09:45 I sent a copy of the ticket in to them and made a complaint they let me off
al
Member
I'm with Pitlamp on this. Rationing of parking in Edale is done quite correctly using double and single yellow lines. Charging for parking isn't a method of rationing, it's a way of raising revenue.
And we ALL pay for roads through various taxes, with no tax specific for road maintenance. VED is, as stated earlier, a tax on emissions. Cyclists actually pay the correct amount - there are even some cars which are zero-rated now (but nowhere near as nice to ride as bikes).
And we ALL pay for roads through various taxes, with no tax specific for road maintenance. VED is, as stated earlier, a tax on emissions. Cyclists actually pay the correct amount - there are even some cars which are zero-rated now (but nowhere near as nice to ride as bikes).
bograt
Active member
A recent article on radio four explained that there is no such thing as road tax, apparantly it was abolished in the 1930's, what we pay is the "vehicle exise duty", i.e. we pay for the privalege of getting around faster than walking pace, the money goes into the central revenue kitty to pay for things like MP's wages and expenses, not on the roads at all!.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
graham said:
The method of "rationing" access is the limited number of spaces. If you get there and it's full, fair enough - just find somewhere else. If you get there and it's not full - why is there any need to extort money out of people anyway? It's all a con Graham.
Just because a method is "successful" it doesn't mean it's either fair or justified. If someone has clearly made no attempt to avoid paying yet gets fined because their receipt was upside down, then how can any serious minded person trust the system?
For others - "VED" is road tax by another name, chosen to try and somehow justify not spending the money on roads. If you use or keep your car on a public road, you must pay for an annual road tax disc or, presumably, something aweful happens. In my book that's a road tax.
(Also for others) - I have every respect for cyclists but they're nothing at all to do with this discussion.
We need taxation, obviously - but it should be based on fairness. We also need to reduce the nation's carbon footprint. Many people will drive round until they find a space where someone isn't trying to charge. So they use more fuel. Therefore this iniquitous rip off is also resulting in a worsening of our carbon footprint. (This annoys me more than contemplating where the money goes.) But, of course, it's nothing to do with pollution really, is it?
I'm probably going to shut up about this now because I don't really want to get into a long drawn out discussion - and I've said my piece. Have a great weekend everybody.
Well said Pitlamp.
As for Edale, at the back of the carpark is a gate to a free parking area that's supposed to be for the local's to use for the children's play area and football pitches. After getting a ticket on wet Tuesday in February on the main carpark, I wasn't going to give them any more money and I always used to park in the local's area. Only got told off once by some biddy who also claimed that my kids weren't allowed to use the swings.
As for Edale, at the back of the carpark is a gate to a free parking area that's supposed to be for the local's to use for the children's play area and football pitches. After getting a ticket on wet Tuesday in February on the main carpark, I wasn't going to give them any more money and I always used to park in the local's area. Only got told off once by some biddy who also claimed that my kids weren't allowed to use the swings.
graham
New member
Pitlamp said:
Not so. if the limited number of spaces are filled by people who will be there all day then that form of rationing does not work
If there are 20 spaces and these are all filled early by long stayers then only 20 people get to stay. If the charges are applied from, say, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m and there is, say, a 4 hour maximum limit then 60 people get to use it in the same time span.
And even if there isn't a maximum stay then the charge will inhibit 'over-stayers.'
Near where I live there is a hospital. Most people will know that it is notoriously difficult to find parking at a hospital if you are visiting someone. About 20 years ago they opened a new car park, to ease the problem. it was (initially) free. What then happened was that people commuting into the city centre would drive to the hospital, park and then finish the journey by bus, only returning 10 hours later to collect their cars and drive home. This problem was only solved by the introduction of parking charges.
You have to understand that although we are all nice people and wouldn't behave like that, there are sufficient not-nice people out there to ruin the system for everyone through their own selfishness. Hence my link earlier to the tragedy of the commons.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
graham said:What I am hearing, here, are plenty of stories from people who never seem to have had a problem parking in Edale, only in paying for that.
Strikes me that the rationing by charge is working well.
Really? Try telling that to people on a low income. Or those who have no change. Or those who receive a letter telling them they're being fined because of a low life who invents excuses such as a "wrongly displayed" ticket. I know what I'd like to see happen to all those parking machines but I'll not elaborate here because it could be taken to be promoting something illegal. I wouldn't want anything illegal to happen - I'd prefer it if this menace was sorted out properly, to everyone's benefit.
bograt
Active member
What really bugs me is having to type your reg. number into the damn things so it gets printed on the ticket, this is so you can't give any extra time to someone else if you don't stay for the full two hour or whatever. This is blatant rip off, if I've paid for a space for two hours, what does it matter which car is in that space?
When this scheme first came out I used to type my number in as P155 OFF but then they bought a by law out and started fining people.
When this scheme first came out I used to type my number in as P155 OFF but then they bought a by law out and started fining people.
Peter Burgess
New member
Rationing worked pretty well in the 1940s too. You didn't have to pay for the ration cards.graham said:What I am hearing, here, are plenty of stories from people who never seem to have had a problem parking in Edale, only in paying for that.
Strikes me that the rationing by charge is working well.
graham
New member
Peter Burgess said:Rationing worked pretty well in the 1940s too. You didn't have to pay for the ration cards.graham said:What I am hearing, here, are plenty of stories from people who never seem to have had a problem parking in Edale, only in paying for that.
Strikes me that the rationing by charge working well.
Systems can be applied to an entire population that cannot be applied to a subsection of the population, unless you think that we should all be allocated parking time in Edale?
Peter Burgess
New member
A free time-limited parking ticket works pretty much as well as one you pay for.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
graham said:Peter Burgess said:Rationing worked pretty well in the 1940s too. You didn't have to pay for the ration cards.graham said:What I am hearing, here, are plenty of stories from people who never seem to have had a problem parking in Edale, only in paying for that.
Strikes me that the rationing by charge working well.
Systems can be applied to an entire population that cannot be applied to a subsection of the population, unless you think that we should all be allocated parking time in Edale?
The the only reason anyone has an interest in applying "systems" is to extort as much money as possible out of people. The fact that we have an openly referred to "parking industry" in the UK says it all really. What's wrong with first come first served, as with any layby anywhere else? I'm unconvinced that the motives of those who impose such systems are benevolent when they try to fine someone because of a particular orientation in which a legitimate ticket was displayed. They're clearly a very nasty set of people and the more awareness of this is raised the better.
Before mulucaver jumps down my throat again - my caving diary tells me that during this month I've been very active both in the Dales and in the Peak. It was on one caving trip that a paid for parking system caused me considerable inconvenience. So as far as I'm concerned this discussion is certainly related to caving.
