Caribiners versus Maillon Rapide

[Lu]

Being initially a climber before I came across caving I have plenty of caribiners and even though I have a quite few maillons now I still tend to use the crabs a lot.
I have started doing bigger and more complex pitches and need now to buy some more maillons but having such a vast number of climbing caribiners (all well known brands) would I be wise to keep using these or would I benefit greatly from growing my maillon rapide collection?
Opinions appreciated. Thanks
Nat

 

[langcliffe]

Opinions appreciated. Thanks

I use screwgate karabiners for rigging as my first choice, but I don't have enough for the more rope-hungry systems when I have to use maillons as well. If I have to use both in a system, I tend to use the krabs for the more cramp-prone traverses where it's useful to get something in as quickly as possible.

 

[Stu]

I ditched using Maillons some years ago. Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs - it's worth checking whenever you are about to settle onto a krab on descent or about to leave it on ascent: check it's orientation.

 

[Brains]

Screwgates are good and lightweight for rigging but can be relatively expensive, and awkward or impossible to clip in some situations.
MR are cheaper, heavier, and can be more awkward to fasten/unfasten. They can almost always be attached to bolts, but some large eyebolts on shaft caps would require a crab or sling.

IMO, if you have screwgates, use them. If you can afford them get more, or MR if not. Club stocks tend to MR as they are cheap and dont have the same magpie effect of crabs.

 

[potholer]

MRs aren't particularly heavy - 7mm long are 60g, whereas my standard alloy screwgate krabs are 55g.

I think the apparent weight thing is more psychological - MRs are denser, and we tend to blur density and weight together.

 

[paul]

Opinions appreciated. Thanks

I use screwgate karabiners for rigging as my first choice, but I don't have enough for the more rope-hungry systems when I have to use maillons as well. If I have to use both in a system, I tend to use the krabs for the more cramp-prone traverses where it's useful to get something in as quickly as possible.

Same with me.

 

[Goydenman]

This is interesting - I have used mainly karabiners for years and thought I was out of sync but seems there are quite a few of us.

 

[Hatstand]

One situation where I have used Maillons in preference to Crabs (even though at the time I had lots of Crabs available and would normally have used them) is rigging where there is already tackle in place. They're that little bit more bomb-proof and less likely to end up in a dodgy state when/if the other kit gets taken out.

But having said that, even then I think thats being just a little paranoid!! 

 

[ianball11]

I've always used krabs for places where there is a chance of getting wet but I find that they are sometimes a mega annoyance to get undone on the way back out, possibly more common on long pitches, but I do find there is a safety feeling when using a bigger bit of metal like a krab as opposed to a maillon.

 

[stevejw]

Previous comments also in Krabs v Maillons - http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,1466.0.html

 

[Lu]

Screwgates are good and lightweight for rigging but can be relatively expensive, and awkward or impossible to clip in some situations.

Interesting responses. And I am happy I am not after all alone on the caribiner preference.

Does anyone have any specific examples of impossible to clip with screwgate situations?

 

[potholer]

I've always used krabs for places where there is a chance of getting wet but I find that they are sometimes a mega annoyance to get undone on the way back out, possibly more common on long pitches...

If a screwgate has done itself up while flexing under load, it usually needs to be unscrewed while flexed/loaded.

The trick is not merely to stick in a cowstail or footloop, etc and hang off it, but to hold the load-providing krab so that it pulls on the base of the stuck krab just under the gate (ie as far as possible from the spine). That maximises leverage and means the krab can often be flexed enough with rather less than full bodyweight.

 

[Burt]

Does anyone have any specific examples of impossible to clip with screwgate situations?

Installed a bolt hanger last night which was too small to fit a screwgate.