Cheap Chinese PPE!

[Damo]

Its been sometime since I last had a browse on Flea Bay and I've been left a tad alarmed at the amount of cheap Chinese PPE that is listed on the site. What I found even more alarming is that they all have CE stamps on them! Maybe its just me and my "suspicious" mind but I find it difficult to believe that a Stop descender that carries a price tag of around ?20 is actually up to European Conformity. In fact you could probably rig yourself out with all your SRT hardware for around the price of a Petzl Stop and have enough spare change for a bag of chips after! Seriously though, if these are fakes surely its only time until something goes seriously wrong. Surely a company as big as Ebay have a counterfeit team? Maybe I am just overly suspicious.

 

[mch]

I'm sure that you're right to worry that sooner or later something will go badly wrong. I suspect that eBay would claim that they are just the middle man and that the principle of caveat emptor applies. The chances of suing an obscure company based abroad outside the EU would be nil I would imagine. I just hope that newbies seek the advice of experienced cavers before buying equipment.

 

[Roger W]

Had a quick browse, saw one seller offering an extra 5% off if you buy 3 or more of these:

"Outdoor Rock Climbing Caving Rigging Rescue elf-braking Stop Descender New D0F5"

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Outdoor-Rock-Climbing-Caving-Rigging-Rescue-elf-braking-Stop-Descender-New-D0F5/142061580241?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Dbd4138fd62074bbca53f567e4a0a80b3%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D13%26sd%3D391492133797

I presume that's to encourage you tocarry a coupe of spares for when the one you are using suffers catastrophic failure..?

Also wondering about the "elf-braking" system - sounds like something out of LOTR!

 

[aricooperdavis]

And here's the same item on Amazon sold by the manufacturer: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lixada-Self-braking-Descender-Climbing-Rigging/dp/B01H1WJLCC

 

[mch]

I worry about the fate of those elves!

 

[Damo]

So far I've come across stops, chest jammers, hand jammers and various crabs, one of which looks to be a copy of the DMM revolver.

 

[Alex]

Its basically a stop with a different handle enough to not break the copy-right infringement. For all we know it might be so cheap as it don't have the Petzle mark up, but then agian it might be so cheap as its likely to fall apart.

The company selling them however seems to get good feedback in general, but its mainly backpacks not PPE.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=&isCBA=&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&orderID=&protocol=current&seller=A2M3NIHRZJB92X&sshmPath=

 

[ZombieCake]

This is probably worse.  Amazon have a suggested 'frequently bought together buy of a ToolZone 12mm 'utility rope' with an obvious clone of a Petzl pulley & a Krab (an amazon suggested product from the link from aricooperdavis).  I'm guessing such rope is very much not up to the task required of climbing or SRT ropes.  Might be OK for training runner beans in the garden though.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QAFEWVW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_200_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2VS8D8FV5CHDDTNG5FEK
A nasty accident waiting to happen?  1970's Gaping Gill?

 

[Damo]

This is probably worse.  Amazon have a suggested 'frequently bought together buy of a ToolZone 12mm 'utility rope' with an obvious clone of a Petzl pulley & a Krab (an amazon suggested product from the link from aricooperdavis).  I'm guessing such rope is very much not up to the task required of climbing or SRT ropes.  Might be OK for training runner beans in the garden though.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QAFEWVW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_200_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2VS8D8FV5CHDDTNG5FEK
A nasty accident waiting to happen?  1970's Gaping Gill?

Wow.....30metres for ?5.58. I wouldn't trust that as a washing line!

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Surely we don't need CE these days do we?

 

[droid]

We ain't left yet.

 

[cooleycr]

Best get "Elf and Safety" to look into this one..... :-[

 

[andrewmcleod]

Its been sometime since I last had a browse on Flea Bay and I've been left a tad alarmed at the amount of cheap Chinese PPE that is listed on the site. What I found even more alarming is that they all have CE stamps on them! Maybe its just me and my "suspicious" mind but I find it difficult to believe that a Stop descender that carries a price tag of around ?20 is actually up to European Conformity. In fact you could probably rig yourself out with all your SRT hardware for around the price of a Petzl Stop and have enough spare change for a bag of chips after! Seriously though, if these are fakes surely its only time until something goes seriously wrong. Surely a company as big as Ebay have a counterfeit team? Maybe I am just overly suspicious.

If you are buying from China direct, it is your responsibility to ensure the product means the standard; you could always contact the notified body, in this case 1019:
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/nando/index.cfm?fuseaction=directive.nb&refe_cd=EPOS_46621

I wouldn't actually be surprised if in this case a) the product by Lixada did actually meet the CE standard (at least some of the time ) and b) they were totally crap (but just about worked; a descender is not a complicated device!)

I would also point out that the Petzl Simple does not bear a CE stamp...

 

[pwhole]

I would also point out that the Petzl Simple does not bear a CE stamp...

Neither does the Kong Banana, which I'm currently using. I did ask around caving mates about the lack of CE marks on both these items, but no-one seemed to have an idea - is it possibly as they're handle-less, and therefore not considered 'PPE' in the strictest sense? I haven't had any issues with the Banana other than its bobbins are bobbins, and function essentially as an aluminium-coating device for ropes.

To be fair to the Toolzone rope, the description does only say:

Great for camping, boating, securing tarpaulins, tying down truck/trailer loads etc.

It's Amazon who are suggesting the joint purchase (and flogging the shitty PPE), and shame on them for that.

 

[NewStuff]

I have some Lixada kit (Camping etc). I'd suggest they are a name/brand, not a manufacturer. That said, everything so far has been decent. Decent enough that I'll order one on payday, and test it out (Belayed or on a Shunt, of course, I'm not *that* stupid).

 

[andrewmcleod]

I would also point out that the Petzl Simple does not bear a CE stamp...

Neither does the Kong Banana, which I'm currently using. I did ask around caving mates about the lack of CE marks on both these items, but no-one seemed to have an idea - is it possibly as they're handle-less, and therefore not considered 'PPE' in the strictest sense?

Indeed, there is no standard for a descender which doesn't stop you dying if you let go

See also belts - there is no standard for a fall-protection harness that might suffocate you if you fall in it wrong. What I do not know though is why it is illegal to sell a belt as a fall-protection device/PPE but it is not illegal (fortunately) to sell manual belay devices for belaying/descending - possibly it is something like the difference between there not being a standard and failure to conform to a standard?

 

[ZombieCake]

Surely we don't need CE these days do we?

I guess CE = Chinese Export.  Especially after the Illuminati invoke Article 50.  I wonder what the Chinese and French will be using for rope access at Hinckley Point, given how wonderful their products are?  Possibly a few 'You've been Framed' video opportunities there....