Constructive Suggestions?

[Downer]

well we need a bit of balance and people needs to exorcise some judgement (myself included) to not leap into a serious discussion and post some crap (me included).

Of course we do but that isn't an option that's available on SMF.

 

[darkplaces]

Yes it does, its called quote and new topic in idle chat!

 

[ttxela]

I don't think there's much wrong really, as pretty much a novice through this forum I have met and been taken caving by various people although sadly due to lack of time I haven't managed to take up everyone on their kind offers, I have asked for and received good reliable information about the location and difficulty caves/mines I have been planning to visit and had some good trips as a result. I've picked up much of the knowledge/philosophy of cave & mine conservation and probably avoided some mistakes as a result. I've read much about equipment and based some of my purchases on what I've read. I've passed time I would otherwise have been bored by reading trip reports, I've even laughed at some of the jokes.

There's some stuff I don't bother to read but it's far outweighed by the good stuff.

 

[Downer]

Yes it does, its called quote and new topic in idle chat!

That's a user choice, not a forum feature.

 

[nickwilliams]

I do not think that is a constructive idea, Nick. It is a very restrictive idea.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you do not have exclusive rights to determine what is constructive. Just because you do not think this is a good idea does not mean that there aren't others who would agree with me.

Like Andy Morgan, I know of a good many cavers who will not go near this forum because of the huge drivel factor which any contribution to it seems to generate. I regret that - I think this would be a far better place if there was a wider spectrum of contributors, particularly from among more experienced and hardened cavers. Less contributions from the few and more from the many would be a good guiding principle in my opinion.

So, do we want a forum that is like a lively pub session, or one that is like a town council meeting?

A completely fatuous question. It's an internet forum, not a pub or a town hall. If I want a pub conversation, I'll go to a pub, and if I want to be bored by the necessary tedium of local government then I know where to find it. This, however, is an internet forum about caving, and I'd like to be able to read and respond to interesting writings about caving from a wide spectrum of cavers. That's not going to happen if all the interesting caving talk gets lost in reams of pointless prattle, or if the signal to noise ratio of the forum simply frightens away the people with interesting and useful things to say.

I have no problem at all with a good joke or an occasional amusing off-topic ramble, and I like a short and pithy or witty resposte as much as the next person. Unfortunately, all of these things have become increasingly difficult to find on UKcaving.com in recent weeks.

Nick.

 

[Downer]

I have no problem at all with a good joke or an occasional amusing off-topic ramble, and I like a short and pithy or witty resposte as much as the next person. Unfortunately, all of these things have become increasingly difficult to find on UKcaving.com in recent weeks.

You don't think you may just have an upset tummy do you?

 

[nickwilliams]

I rest my fucking case.

 

[hyweldavies]

As a regular reader, and very occasional contributer, I think it's all pretty good as it stands. Mainly sensible posts, seasoned with usual silliness as it should be. Idle chat is there for mainly siliness, and the new idea of sticking stuff that doesn't even qualify in idle-chat into the shit-heap is inspired. Only the really dreadfull gets deleted or banned. Compared to news groups the signal to noise ratio is pretty good and there isn't really the need to have a killfile - which is definitely needed in proper newsgroups. In any case most people here know each other to some extent so silliness within reason is all part of the general banter. Anything requiring extra work from the moderators is best avoided as I'm sure it's enough of a chore as it is.

Just my 2 bob's worth

 

[JB]

Here's my serious constructive suggestion based on the fact that Bubba very kindly provides the forum for us to use to discuss caving in all it's diverse forms.

Bubba has an idea of who's posting off-topic dumb remarks, wasting the most disk space in Idle Chat and is dragging the forum furthest from where it's intended to be. I'd like to see the mods send emails to those people asking them to reign it in and try to contribute more sensibly to caving-related stuff. If they've not got anything like that to contribute cos they're too lacking in enthusiasm/busy/fat/unfit to go caving, that's fine; just read what the rest of us are up to. If they don't manage that then just ban 'em and I'll not waste so much time ploughing through the dross.

Jules.

 

[Downer]

I rest my fucking case.

Me too.

 

[JB]

I rest my fucking case.

 

[Elaine]

I have no problem at all with a good joke or an occasional amusing off-topic ramble, and I like a short and pithy or witty resposte as much as the next person. Unfortunately, all of these things have become increasingly difficult to find on UKcaving.com in recent weeks.

You don't think you may just have an upset tummy do you?

Fair enough comment from Nick here. I don't understand Downer's answer.

But I cannot help but lose empathy with the poster when they degenerate into unecessary swearing. That, to me, is more childish than the 'drivel' that goes on.

 

[bubba]

You don't think you may just have an upset tummy do you?

This is exactly the sort of stupid comment that we want to get rid of.

Downer I strongly suggest you stop posting stuff like this now. I've sent you an initial warning PM regarding posting such stuff.

 

[Downer]

I have no problem at all with a good joke or an occasional amusing off-topic ramble, and I like a short and pithy or witty resposte as much as the next person. Unfortunately, all of these things have become increasingly difficult to find on UKcaving.com in recent weeks.

You don't think you may just have an upset tummy do you?

Fair enough comment from Nick here. I don't understand Downer's answer.

I meant that perhaps his difficulty with finding "short and pithy or witty resposte" was down to his mood rather than any shortage on the forum.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I do not think that is a constructive idea, Nick. It is a very restrictive idea.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you do not have exclusive rights to determine what is constructive. Just because you do not think this is a good idea does not mean that there aren't others who would agree with me.

Nick, the whole reason I started this thread was to try to get members to think about what positive ideas or contributions they could make to this forum. I was actually asking for others to make suggestions, so to imply I have exclusive rights etc etc is out of order. By swearing and making 'glum faces' in what was supposed to be a positive and helpful discussion, you and others have just killed this topic as fas as I am concerned. "Physician, heal thyself". I don't pretend to have all the answers, neither do I claim to be whiter than white - in fact I am sure that I annoy many people at times. But that is the way I am.
I am reporting this topic to the mods and asking that it be locked. The reason being that 'my' topic to try to be positive and invite others to do the same (however naive some might think it was) has been completely ruined. I read it and get few positive feelings at all.

I asked that if people didn't have anything positive to say, then they shouldn't bother contributing. Let's see how the mods feel. Let's see if heavier moderator intervention works.

Mods

Please lock this topic - it seems there is little point in flogging this particular dead horse any further. 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Of those who took this topic from what was supposed to be a positive discussion to an argument, I've had one apology, which speaks volumes for that person's integrity and self-awareness, despite the criticism said person has received publicly on this forum in recent postings.

 

[dunc]

Of those who took this topic from what was supposed to be a positive discussion to an argument,

So yet again a small number have indulged in talking shite and ruining yet another topic... Perhaps we should start a topic for constructive suggestions to solve this problem. :doubt: Joking aside, nice try PB, shame it was ruined.

My thoughts:
Move idle chat to the bottom of the list out of the way, leave the caving stuff near the top. If people want to indulge in idle chit-chat in there thats fine, personally I don't have much time for it myself, I make the occasional post but generally I pass most topics by. Maybe delete topics after a certain amount of time.

Can't see the point of killfile to be honest. I would admit there might be some on here I would wish to ignore, but if this feature is added I doubt I'll use it as some useful piece of information may one day be missed.

Heavier moderation of caving threads, yes it is needed in some places - but lets not go overboard - a dash of banter is fine but some people take it too far, too off topic etc. If needs be give people warnings about typing utter shite, etc.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Move idle chat to the bottom of the list out of the way, leave the caving stuff near the top. If people want to indulge in idle chit-chat in there thats fine, personally I don't have much time for it myself, I make the occasional post but generally I pass most topics by. Maybe delete topics after a certain amount of time.

This discussion/argument is in idle chat by default, because it isn't about caving, and it isn't about notices/support, so where else should it have gone? Clearly, to describe it as idle chat is largely wrong. Not all idle chat posts are idle chat, but sometimes there isn't anywhere else to put stuff.

 

[bubba]

It'd probably be most appropriate in notices/support but it's fine here.

Maybe notices / support should be renamed to "notices / support / forum related discussion" or something

 

[dunc]

This discussion/argument is in idle chat by default, because it isn't about caving, and it isn't about notices/support, so where else should it have gone?

Oh, I didn't realise I was questioning the location of this topic? But if you insist, then I would agree with Bubba, its "about the site" so notices/support is probably the best place for it. To clear up any misunderstanding, I meant move the idle-chat section/board to "other stuff" (alongside lifts, lost and found etc) rather than "uk caving" as it is now.



Why bother