Coping with camera and humidity/dampness underground

[Lu]

how do you cope with not getting the camera fully damp? I mean I have been to white lady cave 3 times trying to take pictures of the wonderful walls but after 2 seconds out of the bag, pocket, box, whatever I put it on, it goes all smokey and all I see on the shots is fog!! Help here please.
I don't need professional shots but  I like taking underground photography a lot and a quick/easy/light camera is sufficient.
I usually use Olympus mju or Nikon AW100 which are bomb "bombproof" but not dampness proof apparently.

 

[Peter Burgess]

If you are talking about condensation descending on your camera, I know someone who cured this by sticking a small hot water bottle in his ammo box (as we used to use) next to the camera. Nowadays I suppose you could use those gel bag hand warmer thingies.

 

[badger]

are you on facebook? there is a cave photography group, asking the question in two places might help get the answer

 

[Lu]

yes condensation is the right word I suppose. I usually take them cameras to sea, lake, canyon and fine in general water and in dryer caves but they don't like the little neath river caves or any with lots of water and not much space about (had same bad luck in Porth Yr Ogof but strangely camera was fine in valley entrance, even with all the water)

what's the facebook name?

 

[Olaf]

Try to give the camera some time to "adapt" to the cave, so that it has the same temperature as the environment. This usually works best by NOT packing the camera water- and airtight into a box. Get a bag made of fabric and stick it in a pocket on the outside of your oversuit. Usually works great for my DMC-FT3.

If you insist on taking a water- and airtight box, just pack a towel as well...

 

[Peter Burgess]

I imagine one reason you may have seen differences in different caves is whether the temperature change from surface to underground was an increase or a decrease. Take a cold object into a warmer humid location and the lens will mist up. Ask anyone who wears glasses and goes caving in the winter. If the object has been prewarmed, there ought to be no problem. Also, some caves with running water can have remarkably dry air in the passages, especially near open entrances. If the the air is dry, there may not be much of a problem.

 

[badger]

facebook name is "cave photography" group

 

[JasonC]

I like to take snaps in caves too, but am a photographic ignoramus.  But what I've recently found to help is to illuminate the subject from an oblique angle instead of using the camera flash.  This means you don't get flash reflections off the ambient vapour going straight back into your view.  I'm assuming you're not going for panoramic shots of big chambers etc....

The illumination can be provided with a cap lamp turned up to 'dazzle' mode, no extra gear needed.
And of course wipe the condensation off the lens with a clean rag

 

[Lu]

thanks Badger just sent a request to join.

Olaf, at the beginning I also thought time to adapt but this doesn't seem to be the answer as the camera actually gets worse the longer I stay. at the moment I usually just carry it in a string around my neck inside the caving suit ready to get out any time.

Peter, I guess a warming thingy although nice idea wouldn't be too practical and I would probably need a few when staying underground all day

 

[Lu]

Jason the problem seems to be inside the camera, I tried wiping lens, different light angles (with helmet lamps in different places) but all I get in the picture is fog

 

[Amy]

Underground is different temperature and humidity than outside. The camera will need a few minutes for all the glass to adjust, and until then it's like a glass of cold water on a warm day, it fogs up and gets wet. If it's really bad a lens cloth can help, but don't bother "drying" it off until you give it a few minutes. Once you do this once, it should be good for the whole trip. You probably notice the same thing when you get it back outside. It is very important to let the camera air out upon exit of the cave, don't leave it in a pack, case, or waterproof box. Get back to the car, pull it out and set it in open air and leave it out and not packed for a few days. If you don't do this, the moisture will condense and eventually start getting inside the camera. If that happens, sorry you are kinda screwed but can try putting it in an airtight container with dessicant to dry it out before it starts destroying the electronics. If moisture gets into the lens or behind the viewing screen, it is hard to get it back out.

If you are getting fog in the images from the flash, that is a whole different story and doing the off camera flash will help and you'll need to get creative with lighting depending on the conditions and your lighitng creativity it can be easy to "impossible" to deal with.

I think I just saw your request to join the fb group, you are in =) (I am one of the admins)

AHH you ninja'd me in posting =) It sounds like it didn't get aired out well at some point and you have moisture inside the camera itself, if the pictures eveno nt he computer are foggy it is into the lens mechanism. If you can find directions for it, take apart your camera as much as you can and let it dry out in dessicant then reassemble. I do that as a last resort, but if it's continually fogged, it's "ruined" anyway so you can't make it worse if you can't get it back together or if you unscrew too much. In the future, keep it in a waterproof case underground (even if it is just a pouch for $20 if you wish to keep carrying it around your neck, otterbox/pelican cases are even better though) and take it out and let it air dry well after every trip. It sounds like the lack of protection got the water into it and now the moisture inside is stuck.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I never seem to have much trouble and I do take a few photos from time to time. : Firstly understand the limitations of your camera and work to its strengths. You will see my shots are usually fairly close to subject though by adding a slave fired flash to the mix quite a lot more can be achieved. My view is always keep it simple and use auto when possible relying on a percentage rate of good shots from a large number taken. I usually end up with about %50. If you think back scatter will be a problem aim for as much black in the background to make cloning easier. I am afraid very little good will come out of cave photography without a bit of Photoshop or Picasa, Paint.Net etc if you prefer free programmes. I carry my camera well wrapped in a small Pelicase . Yes, certainly, it will have to adapt to a temperature differential but that should not take long. Dont be put off by failures but learn from them to get better photos. Try to look at subjects differently from others. Try to capture the character of a subject. You rarely get that in stiff posed shots.Even when things go wrong you can pretend it was a carefully constructed shot.
This one is either damp or dust. It spoiled half the photo so I cropped it out to make it an intentional abstract masterpiece.



This is back scatter but very easy to clone from a black background.



See



In some instances fogging will be too bad for anyone to get a photo. Take shots early on or hold the camera away from your body as it might well be steam off you.

Keep plodding away something has to come right. As ever post more photos here on the forum.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Carry a packet of silica gel in a sealed camera box. That might help with internal moisture. Ultimately that sort of moisture will kill the camera anyway. Best to use a sealed "tough " type of camera. ? 200 should buy a good one. Dont use a camera with an external lens diaphragm as dust will finally kill that too.

 

[Lu]

Cheers Amy, thanks for accepting my request, i will post something there too. You can see some of the crappy pictures I took recently in the Neath River little holes on my facebook page.
what is strange is that as soon as I get outside camera is fine straight away.
And I always air it a lot after trips, for at least a week inside a box with silica gel.
but as this never happened before (at least not to this extent) I will have to assume it's a problem with the cameras and the difference in temperatures/humidity especially

I like your article on cave cameras on your blog 

 

[Lu]

Ruminator I like your picture, I occasionally keep some of the "bad" ones if they look abstract enough  , I am not much into stiff posed photos, I like action and natural photos. I know I can't expect much with a compact digital but lately they have been very reliable and I suppose I got used to it and am now p*d off that I don't have that reliability anymore, it might as well be time to replace the camera, as everyone says a cave camera cannot last long...very true!

I might try the closed box as a last resort...

 

[bograt]

Nat, I think your starting point to rectify this would be to 'dessicate it', put it into an airtight tub (e.g. 'Tupperware' tub) with some silica-gel, this is the stuff you get in those tea-bag things in most electronic deliveries, if you leave it long enough (maybe a day or two) it will dry out all the electronics and give you a good starting point.
If the 'tea bags' have been exposed to the atmosphere for any length of time you can rejuvenate them by leaving them in the oven at around 80 to 95 degrees C overnight, they will then have the ability to absorb a lot of moisture. P.S., DON'T put your camera or the 'tupperware tub' in the oven!!.

After that, allow your camera to become acclimatised to the temperature and humidity of the cave and take a soft, absorbant cloth for a quick wipe before you take your shot.

(If you know any specs wearers, their opticians are usually willing to supply 'soft, absorbant cloths' gratis, not many people are aware that they are washable )

 

[Lu]

Thanks Bogart, tried all that. the only thing I haven't tried is the closed box and wrapped in a cloth/fabric which I will try next time

 

[bograt]

Sorry, if the dehumidifying process don't work. I fear you are on to a loser!,  new camera required!.

 

[Amy]

If you don't want to religate it to be above ground only since the temp/humidity is such it won't re-condense it there, it's dead. it got too much moisture (probably got into water at some point for it to be that bad, or in good spray, etc) to dry out by conventional means. If you can find the assembly instructions for your model of camera, you can follow that to start unscrewing those little screws and I would leave it taken apart in dessicant in a sealed container for like, 2-3 weeks. Don't take the lens assembly apart because that is super easy to mess up, but the lens assembly should separate from the body, take the screen and panels off of the body, basically you'll probably get it into 4-6 pieces depending on the construction. Just go as far as you feel comfortable you can reverse the process =)

 

[Alex]

I know nothing but... when I take photos underground the first thing I always do is turn the flash off, the fog problem goes away, though I sometimes wipe the lens with any bit of dryness I have to hand. My camera has a great hand-held night shot mode for low light conditions where it takes several shots and amalgamates everything together, you don't need a tripod for this, but its not great on panoramic shots (above 20ft of distance).

For that big shots I have a very small ?2.50 Amazon tripod that fits in the small otter case and then use the "night scenery mode" on my camera for taking up to 60 seconds exposures on the little tripod. With a good light I can light up massive chambers using this including the Time Machine in Daren, just put it into that mode hit the timer button (2 seconds to prevent any shaking) and let it get on with it. I usually light paint the chamber by moving my light about and that's it. I have no flash guns or out fancy just a good digital camera and a cheap tripod. No fog in either of these methods.

Using slave flashes rather than the camera's flash also solves the condensation issue but I personally don't use them. Though you can get better "action" shots this way as people don't have to stand still like they are having a Victorian picture taken as they do in the light painting mode.