Daren Cilau - Ogof Cnwc/prices Dig

[Damo]

Hi,

Some friends and I are planning a through trip tomorrow, l've been digging around for some info but have turned up very few results.

I'm hoping someone could tell how complicated route finding is between Antler and the start of the Cnwc exit?

I've been to Antler passage via the Daren entrance and I've entered the cave via Cnwc, but I was on a trip which took me to the end of Busmans in the opposite direction.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Damo.

 

[NigR]

First thing I would suggest is to do the trip in the opposite direction so that you get wet at the end, not the beginning.

PM me if you would like me to try and get a key for Cnwc sorted out (shouldn't be a problem).

If you really want to go in via Daren then just follow your nose but be careful not to miss the exit to Cnwc from Busman's - turn left where the tapes diverge just after the big calcited chamber/passage.

Climbs should all be equipped with fixed aids (including rope for lifeline) but it might be worth taking a short travelling rope as well (depending on how confidant you are and who you have with you). To be mega safe you could always take a belay belt and cowstails too.

Other than that, just carry some spare food, drink and lighting (just in case!) and give yourself plenty of time.

Have fun!

 

[Rhys]

Helpful info and a survey here:

http://www.chelseaspelaeo.org.uk/Newsletters/Vol52/Vol52_No10-11_OctNov2010.pdf

 

[Damo]

Cheers Nig and Rhys, very much appreciated.

I think the general plan is to enter via Daren, but I'll discuss a possible Cnwc - Daren trip with one of the lads later.

Thanks again for your help,

Damo.

 

[Alkapton]

If you are exiting from Cwnc, then after Antler Passage there are not many places you can get confused, and if you do get confused it won't be for long.  If you start at Cwnc you are more likely to miss the route to Antler Passage if you don't know where to look.

As soon as you hit marker tape after Antler Passage, in a very nice up and down section where you only have a very narrow path in the marker tape keep to your left, its like you go right up to the wall of a chamber...  Keep left, you should see the cave rescue telephone line, now just follow the line.

 

[Huge]

Can anyone tell me why Cwnc is gated? I was discussing this with someone the other day and we couldn't come up with a decent reason. It didn't have a gate before the connection was made.

It's damp, muddy, awkward (for the tall anyway) and just generally unpleasant. Surely enough to put off curious non cavers! The Daren entrance is probably more pleasant, if a little longer.

 

[Alkapton]

Daren Cilau has always been thought of as 'self protecting'.  Before you get to anything nice you got a crawl of 3/4 km.  It ain't easy.

Ogof Cwnc, as soon as you get into Cilau itself you is in a very well decorated place.  It is quite easy to get into.

The proof is I is a disabled solo caver (or I was, I think my caving days are over)  I has no problem getting to Antler Passage from Cwnc.  I have tried to get into Daren Cilau and failed both times in the same place.  Its not even very far in.  I see water in tight passage where I can get stuck and I loose the will to live, sorry continue, I just can't solo that passage.  I would not ask for help either, I am too slow to help.

And that I think is the reason, Cilau don't need a gate.  Cwnc benefits from a gate because one of the most beautiful places I have ever been to in my life is just a 15 minute crawl from the surface, its not even a crawl the whole way, its a very civilized entrance.

 

[Huge]

Personally, I think it's a very uncivilized entrance! 

I can see the conservation angle but I think Cwnc is enough to put the idiots off and the cave is mostly very well taped. You're a caver so a bit of crawling and mud is nothing.

 

[Rhys]

I think the gate on Ogof Cnwc is OTT. It's quite an unpleasant enough entrance to put off casual visitors. And it's on Open Access land.

 

[NigR]

Yes, I agree that the gate is not essential, either on safety or conservation grounds. As has been stated, the cave was not gated prior to the connection with Busman's. I believe the gate was first installed some time after the first (now flooded) connection was made but well before the present (dry) connection was pushed through. I am not sure about the reasons given as justification for the gate as I had no involvement in the cave at that time, my first visit being to help enlarge the second connection.

I expressed my opinion on that occasion and I would like to think that my input has contributed towards the current situation with regard to obtaining the key (which, as gated caves go, is really not too bad). Keys are readily available to any caver (not just clubs or club members), either to borrow or buy. If you buy one, it is yours to keep and it is your responsibility as to who you might decide to lend it to (call it a self-vetting access system if you like). It seems to work well and there have been no complaints as yet (other than that the cave should not be gated!). All you have to do is get in touch with Stuart France (contact details readily available on CSS & CCC websites) and take it from there.

Anyone else who has any views on whether Ogof Cnwc should be gated or not might also like to consider contacting Stuart directly as I am sure he would be keen to hear what you think.

(It is interesting that both Huge and Rhys regard the entrance series as being "unpleasant". Although shorter in length, the worst bit in Drws Cefn is much tighter and nastier than anything to be found in Cnwc!).

 

[Rhys]

A Derbyshire key system would be preferable if a gate is required here.

 

[NigR]

Yes, I agree that a Derbyshire key would be fine.

In fact, as mentioned in the latest CCC newsletter, the first example of this in South Wales has recently been put into operation and it would be nice to think that this could be extended so as to include other sites in due course.

 

[drainrat]

In reply to the original post, two of us went to do the through trip, exiting out of Ogof Cnwc. We couldn't find the way out and despite searching for an hour had to turn round and make the 3.5 hour trip back. 13 hours underground. It turns out after asking around that we were within minutes (relatively speaking) of getting out of Ogof Cnwc!

The various points where water bottles had been left were an absolute godsend for two very dehydrated cavers!

 

[NigR]

How did your trip go, Damo?

 

[Damo]

It all went to plan,Nig. 3 of us entered through Daren at 09:00am, got through the entrance in a reasonable but not fast time.

Got down to the Antlers ok, had a quick look at the survey and then did as you said and followed our noses.

The trip took us a about 5- 5:30 hours.

Cheers again for your help.

 

[NigR]

Glad you had a good trip, Damo.

See, all you have to do is follow your noses, that's what proper caving's all about!

Don't forget, if you want a permanent key for Cnwc just contact Stuart - he has got about a dozen left.