Peter Burgess
New member
Actually, we are all the losers when a topic gets drawn into stupid vindictive comments. Just pack it in for everyone's sake, please.
Simon Wilson said:graham said:Simon Wilson said:graham said:Bob Mehew said:I think it is worth recalling a bit of history of caving politics.
OK, CSCC was formed specifically to counter perceived moves by CNCC to impose its policies on access across the nation as a whole.
History repeats itself.
This is Graham as usual being deliberately provocative for no other reason than he enjoys it.
This is Simon demonstrating that he has no knowledge of history.
It's still 2-nil.
Peter Burgess said:Simon - it will be difficult to find the perfect rule by which you can differentiate the genuinely small club from the sort you keep on about. It's probably a very grey area. Some new small clubs may well be genuine "break away" clubs by cavers who simply thought a new club was more appropriate than trying to muck along in one they were not comfortable with. How do you decide if a club was set up for purely political reasons, apart from some kind of gut feeling?
Alex said:Oh I see the problem Simon, I thought you were having problems with clubs like BRCC (We are quite small but very active) but I see now you are talking about contrived clubs (which would be a better name for them I think, to avoid confusion).
Alex said:Oh I see the what you mean Simon, until your latest post I thought you were having problems with clubs like BRCC (We are quite small but very active) but I see now you are talking about contrived clubs (which would be a better name for them I think, to avoid confusion).
droid said:No....he's a shining wit
BCA has rules concerning what is an acceptable club, see http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=membership:club_criteria. It normally expects there to be at least 4 members. The current list of member clubs is at http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:member_clubs. So I suggest there is a general view within BCA that micro (that is more than 3 people) clubs are OK.Simon Wilson said:Are we all happy with the concept of a micro-club or are some of the provocative people going to pretend they don't know what I am talking about?
Bob Mehew said:BCA has rules concerning what is an acceptable club, see http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=membership:club_criteria. It normally expects there to be at least 4 members. The current list of member clubs is at http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:member_clubs. So I suggest there is a general view within BCA that micro (that is more than 3 people) clubs are OK.Simon Wilson said:Are we all happy with the concept of a micro-club or are some of the provocative people going to pretend they don't know what I am talking about?
Bob Mehew said:BCA has rules concerning what is an acceptable club, see http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=membership:club_criteria. It normally expects there to be at least 4 members. The current list of member clubs is at http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/doku.php?id=about:member_clubs. So I suggest there is a general view within BCA that micro (that is more than 3 people) clubs are OK.Simon Wilson said:Are we all happy with the concept of a micro-club or are some of the provocative people going to pretend they don't know what I am talking about?
graham said:Bob Mehew said:I think it is worth recalling a bit of history of caving politics.
OK, CSCC was formed specifically to counter perceived moves by CNCC to impose its policies on access across the nation as a whole.
History repeats itself.
Simon Wilson said:Pitlamp said:So how do you actually define what counts as a "proper" club?
I do talk to Red Rose members frequently Simon; many of them are personal friends. The fact remains that the majority of caving clubs don't own a hostel and some of these non hostel owning clubs are also large. So I'm not sure that extrapolating from casual discussions with a few members of one club, to draw conclusions about the whole UK caving community, is very helpful.
John, my old mate, this thread is about democracy not about club hostels. I'm not going to argue with you about what is a 'proper' club or which one of us has more friends in Red Rose.
But I will point out that you are a member of a well-respectied northern club that is a proper club. Your club did not send a representative to this year's CNCC AGM despite numerous pleadings to do so. Your club has not attended a CNCC meeting for as long as the published minutes show (back to 2006) and appears to have no interest in the CNCC whatsoever.
Simon Wilson said:Sorry John, It was NPC I was referring to who appear to take no interest in the CNCC.
Nearlywhite, SUSS have been discussed at some length at two recent CNCC meetings. I think it is fair to say that most people are quite dismayed that SUSS were discouraged from joining. I'm sure you will be aware that there is now a new Secretary and that things are changing. Can you ask the person responsible to get SUSS to apply to join ASAP.
Pitlamp said:Simon Wilson said:Sorry John, It was NPC I was referring to who appear to take no interest in the CNCC.
Nearlywhite, SUSS have been discussed at some length at two recent CNCC meetings. I think it is fair to say that most people are quite dismayed that SUSS were discouraged from joining. I'm sure you will be aware that there is now a new Secretary and that things are changing. Can you ask the person responsible to get SUSS to apply to join ASAP.
Well, I've been to several NPC meetings this year when CNCC issues have been discussed and I remember one (back in March I think) when the Secretary was asked to write to the CNCC to express the club's opinion on something because there was something on that day which prevented anyone attending in person. (I don't remember the detail because I'm not an officer of the club, so I had no real need to make a firm mental note of it.) I also remember the issue of the NPC's membership of CNCC coming up at a meeting; I think this was because we found we were associate members and we decided to apply to be full members. Not sure what happened about this but I'm confident that the NPC does support the CNCC and take an interest.
Regarding SUSS; I'd be delighted to see this club become a CNCC member but I'll not see any of our clubs officers till early September (at the earliest) so if this is urgent you might be better off telling SUSS directly?
nearlywhite said:I will do. I suspect that the committee (and myself) were under the impression that we couldn't because we were a member of the DCA - the whole M62 line we learned was untrue!
Back to the topic, I do think that if a club is active in an area it has a stake in its administration - though I don't have a clue how to manage that in the current system without a free-for-all