Discussion Etiquette

[Peter Burgess]

Graham recently asked why it should be a problem if discussions on the forum go so wildly off-topic. I promised I would come back and explain what I feel about it.

I visualise the forum as a number of rooms where anyone can go and start a discussion, whether trivial, or serious. There are also noticeboards in the corridors for people to post up questions, or advertise stuff. Imagine I want to start a debate about (sorry, Graham) the Charterhouse Caving Company. I will stick a note on a door in the Mendip section advertising the discussion, go in, and make my first post. Naturally, others who have a point of view will come into that room and join in. Someone then makes an aside, which is picked up by others and an argument starts about something totally unrelated to my original question. Loads more people come into the room and join in. So there's this separate discussion going on in the room. If it were a real room, this would be unacceptable. Those individuals should be asked to go and find another room to continue their debate. So it should be here, I think. It takes little effort to start a new topic in an appropriate place. For the sake of tidiness, perhaps this should be encouraged even if the original discussion has run its course. Perhaps some 'rooms' are actually like the corner seats in the pub - this is the sort of topic where going off on a tangent should cause no offence. This is the 'idle chat' section, surely. I'm sure there are other places where it's no big deal - such as topics with no real agenda in the regional sections, for example.

Should it be really necessary for the originator to place in their first post a polite suggestion that the discussion is not to be hijacked by those who are too lazy to leave the room to start their own topic? It particularly annoys me when a non-political discussion turns into an online version of Radio 4's "Any Questions" with all its loaded questions, political posturing and non-answers. Perhaps the original poster could have some say when this happens. They might not have a problem with it, but if they do, perhaps they should be encouraged to ask a moderator to move the unrelated discussion to a new thread?

 

[ianball11]

I find the openess of the forum appealing and a more formal structure would annoy me. The banter that comes from fast posting I find enjoyable.

Ian B.

 

[Peter Burgess]

The forum works well because most contributors have respect for each other, even if they do get annoyed with each other from time to time. I am not suggesting a more formal forum, just some sensible self-imposed discipline, when it is needed.

 

[darkplaces]

Its up to the Admin and Mods to define areas for formal posting and more casual posting and when they are crossed to make adjustments and post saying so.

Like trip reports, you don't need 100 people saying 'nice shots...' what camera you got ends up into a my camera is better then yours topic.

 

[martinr]

Its up to the Admin and Mods to define areas for formal posting and more casual posting and when they are crossed to make adjustments and post saying so.

Like trip reports, you don't need 100 people saying 'nice shots...' what camera you got ends up into a my camera is better then yours topic.

Hi

Is it raining on Mendip?

(sorry, off-topic....)

 

[dunc]

I find the openess of the forum appealing and a more formal structure would annoy me. The banter that comes from fast posting I find enjoyable.

Openess is ok up to a point but being too open also brings in problems.. Its a fine balance.. If a topic starts to drift too far away from where it started then maybe a new topic should be started - if I want information on something and I search for it then I hardly want to see a pile of inane drivel which is not in anyway related to what I want to find! This also brings up the question of why people don't bother searching forums for information and just create new topics about stuff that has already been covered - you can probably gain an answer quickly without having to search through page after page of text - half of which is probably irrelevant anyway..

Like trip reports, you don't need 100 people saying 'nice shots...' what camera you got ends up into a my camera is better then yours topic.

Indeed, there is a tendancy amongst some to make such comments or to reply with 'lol' or other such pointless replies, do we really need to see others 'laughing' at something? etc

Is it raining on Mendip?

No, that is highly unlikey as it has a more southerly location and thus according to the laws of the southerners: it only ever rains in the north..

 

[Peter Burgess]

If there is a high chance that new people are put off by the way the forum is drifting, or existing members are wandering away, perhaps we do need to discuss how to 'behave' better, and restrict the 'rubbish' and 'drivel' to a defined 'play area'. It's down to Bubba at the end of the day.....

 

[Dep]

Interesting. I like this forum as it is.
Yes there are some silly posts, and a few that irritate me but I can live with it.
To be honest there are one or two that really are about caving that bore the pants of me.

As long as silly posts stay in Idle Chat, and people don't take the p**s with side-comments I see no problem.

In the 18 months or so I have been here I have only seen two people make trouble and both were dealt with.

There is a high level of activity which is good.
Take away all the frivolity too and watch this place die as it becomes the province of pontificating old farts (a generalisation - not directed at anyone in particular)

There is plenty going on to be worth dipping into on a daily basis, ok so some of it is crap but I just ignore that and filter out what I want to read. And then I mark all the unread dross as read and carry on.

I see no reason to make major cahanges as long as things are kept in the right categories.

Moderators might be a bit more active in policing this - by the simple expedient of moving things as required.

 

[kay]

I came to this forum to find out about caves. But a welcome side effect is being able to chat about all sorts of things with like minded people (and the fact that we are all attracted to caving gives us some common outlook, even though we have areas of huge disagreement).

If it were not for all the discussions on Idle Chat, I doubt whether I'd visit every day like I do at the moment (yes I know I need to get a life). So on those rare occasions when there is a caving question that I can answer, I'd be less likely to be around to answer it. And I suspect the same may be true for some of those who have far more answers to give than I have.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I came to this forum to find out about caves. But a welcome side effect is being able to chat about all sorts of things with like minded people (and the fact that we are all attracted to caving gives us some common outlook, even though we have areas of huge disagreement).

If it were not for all the discussions on Idle Chat, I doubt whether I'd visit every day like I do at the moment (yes I know I need to get a life). So on those rare occasions when there is a caving question that I can answer, I'd be less likely to be around to answer it. And I suspect the same may be true for some of those who have far more answers to give than I have.

However, if I want to read the news I'd rather go to a news site than have it parked in front of me by the Cut 'n Paste Gang. :thumbsdown:

 

[Dep]

I came to this forum to find out about caves. But a welcome side effect is being able to chat about all sorts of things with like minded people (and the fact that we are all attracted to caving gives us some common outlook, even though we have areas of huge disagreement).

If it were not for all the discussions on Idle Chat, I doubt whether I'd visit every day like I do at the moment (yes I know I need to get a life). So on those rare occasions when there is a caving question that I can answer, I'd be less likely to be around to answer it. And I suspect the same may be true for some of those who have far more answers to give than I have.

However, if I want to read the news I'd rather go to a news site than have it parked in front of me by the Cut 'n Paste Gang. :thumbsdown:

I agree with both sentiments above. The idle chat keeps the pot boiling...
...but even complete crap in Idle Chat should be free of plagiarism.
And its bad netiquette (to say nothing of copyright issues) to cut and paste - just cite the link - job done.

 

[chriscastle46]

I'm reluctant to criticise when people put so much work into running this forum, so I'll just say compare the first and last pages of the What is moonmilk? thread to see why it can be so irritating.

 

[kay]

And its bad netiquette (to say nothing of copyright issues) to cut and paste - just cite the link - job done.

Bt it is useful to have some indication of what the link is about - a one-line summary, say. It's irritating to go to a link only to find it's something you're not even remotely interested in.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I'm reluctant to criticise when people put so much work into running this forum, so I'll just say compare the first and last pages of the What is moonmilk? thread to see why it can be so irritating.

As instigator of the Moonmilk discussion, and perpetrator of some of the silliness at the end, I think I am permitted to make a comment on this. The discussion served its purpose very well indeed. As a result I have had samples analysed, and drawn some very interesting conclusions about the site that made me ask the initial question. The serious stuff is more or less finished, and I hope that other curious readers as well as myself may have learnt something useful.

So now the serious stuff is over, what is wrong with some harmless silly banter? At least it didn't descend into political diatribes, or arguments about how many maillons fit on the head of a pin. I don't see the thread developing much more, so why not finish on a lighter note? And at least the main part of the thread was not interrupted (with some minor exceptions) by irrelevant comments.

There's rarely an inappropriate time to smile. 

 

[bubba]

I'm not sure there is a real problem here?

Idle Chat is where the frivolous stuff should stay, and things are usually moved over there by a mod if deemed not to be caving related.

Granted, some of the mods (including me) don't keep as much of an eye on the place as they used to, which is why we've recruited Cap 'n Chris as a new mod, coz he's much more active than us. We'll probably bring new mods on board as and when they are needed.

It can be frustrating when a serious discussion goes badly off-topic...but isn't that just how conversations work in real life? If the forum was policed to the point where everything had to stay rigorously on-topic then i think most people would view that as too constraining.

One thing that isn't acceptable though, is deliberate topic hijacking - but that is very different to a conversation wandering over the course of time.

As for news items - I would say it's best to maybe cut/paste the important part of the item, but then to link back to the original source wherever possible.

 

[Dep]

I'm reluctant to criticise when people put so much work into running this forum, so I'll just say compare the first and last pages of the What is moonmilk? thread to see why it can be so irritating.

You're quite right.

And because I am not perfect I make no great clamour to change this board in any way.

It was a legitimate bit of banter not entirely unrelated to the topic, and not worth movng to another topic in the few minutes it went on for - would have killed the spontaneity. But now it is done so further postngs will be on topic I am sure. (and equally sure that there will be more to come on that subject too)

 

[wormster]

What I like about this forum is that you can ask a specific question (as I have done on a number of occasions) and receive a variety of interesting replies, some helpful some not so.

Some topics annoy me (global warming, dentists and the like) but you are allways going to get those and its just a matter of filtering them out.

Topic hijacking and flaming isn't approperate in my book, I try not to do so and wish that others wouldn't.

On another well known forum there's a thread totally devoted to all of those "off topic and general ramblings" that allows users the space to do exactly that, be silly for 5 Min's.

well that's my 10p's worth (rant over :halo

 

[graham]

We need the boss-man to install

 

[graham]

And we could use this one on Mr Lackington's posts:

 

[Peter Burgess]

http://www.micechat.com/forums/

Is this a forum you visit often, Graham?