First caves advice ? Yorkshire Dales

[01lambournti]

Hi again,

Once again, very grateful for all your comments.

@kay: so on balance, seems like we?ll be OK on our own, I think. We?ll have plenty of spare lights (running out of lights in the middle of a cave sounds doesn?t bear thinking about ? does that ever happen?!), plus someone will know where we?re going and details of who they should call if we don?t get back in touch. And we?ll check the weather situation at Inglesport or Bernie?s before we go. Thanks for all your navigational comments; I?ve added them to a sheet which we can scan before we go. My friend is OK with heights on the whole, but I?m thinking it?s better to avoid them this time since so many other things will be new ? e.g. lack of space, darkness etc. A slippery footpath and small waterfall climb won?t pose any problems. Clothing points also noted.

And your most recent post ? so the wet weather option would be Attermire, Jubilee and Victoria caves. We?d walk up from Settle (which happens to be on the way over to Malham where we?re based the following night) and spend a couple of hours there. Do you think that would be enough for an afternoon (we?re going to be really touristy and do the Ingleton Waterfalls walk in the morning, even though I hate the idea of having to pay to basically walk along a couple of rivers?)? Or is there anywhere else between Ingleton and Malham (or close by) where we could also go to fill up time?

@langcliffe, @Andrew W: the prices look fine for a lamp and oversuit: thank you. We plan to walk up Ingleborough (passing by Gaping Gill) one of the other days and I wasn?t exactly classifying that as high risk ? so if Great Douk is supposed to be less risky than that, I don?t think we have much to worry about

@kay, @langcliffe, @Andrew W, @paull, @darwen dave, @dunc: regarding Upper Long Churn, that would have to replace Great Douk, as we?d be short for time. It sounds like Great Douk is better for a ?bit of everything?, so we?ll leave ULC this time. It sounds good though. Same with Valley Entrance, and with the Ribblesdale caves.

It?s easy to forget I won?t actually be doing this for another 2 or 3 months! But will be sure to write back on this thread when we return. Anyway, I need to actually go and do some normal (i.e. academic) work now. Unfortunately geography is the closest subject you can get to the outdoors, but still not very close!!

Thanks,
Tim

 

[dunc]

so the wet weather option would be Attermire, Jubilee and Victoria caves. We?d walk up from Settle (which happens to be on the way over to Malham where we?re based the following night) and spend a couple of hours there. Do you think that would be enough for an afternoon (we?re going to be really touristy and do the Ingleton Waterfalls walk in the morning, even though I hate the idea of having to pay to basically walk along a couple of rivers?)? Or is there anywhere else between Ingleton and Malham (or close by) where we could also go to fill up time?

To do a short circular walk from Settle to Attermire and pop in the caves along the scar should be, at a rough guess and give or take a bit, 3hours.

 

[Roger W]

running out of lights in the middle of a cave sounds doesn?t bear thinking about ? does that ever happen?

A long time ago I heard the tale - probably apocryphal - of some soldiers who went to explore a cave with just a few candles for light.  The story went that they ran out of light in the depths of the cave and attempted to feel their way out by following one wall of the passage.  Unfortunately they had not noticed a side passage that rejoined the main one, and ended up following a circular path in the darkness until they dropped from exhaustion.  The bodies - so the story went - were found only a short distance from the cave entrance but just out of sight of daylight...   

Unfortunately I can't remember where this was supposed to have happened, or when...  Has anyone else heard that story?

 

[kay]

We?ll have plenty of spare lights (running out of lights in the middle of a cave sounds doesn?t bear thinking about ? does that ever happen?!),

Once in Gaping Gill we met a bloke hurrying along switching on his very dim light for a couple of secs to see the passage ahead, then switching off the light for a few minutes, switching on again for the next bit, and so on ...

And your most recent post ? so the wet weather option would be Attermire, Jubilee and Victoria caves.

I wasn't asking about your wet weather option, I was rather hoping someone might chip in with other ideas! I find myself fairly stumped for wet weather horizontal options and usually end up not bothering if the weather is bad.

Do you think that would be enough for an afternoon (we?re going to be really touristy and do the Ingleton Waterfalls walk in the morning, even though I hate the idea of having to pay to basically walk along a couple of rivers?)? Or is there anywhere else between Ingleton and Malham (or close by) where we could also go to fill up time?

Ingleton waterfalls walk is worth it - it's a lot of waterfalls in a short walk. As to elsewhere to fill in time, it depends on what you enjoy doing. The show caves (ingleborough and Whitescar) are good and on a much larger scale than Great Douk! You'll want to see Malham Cove (and you can do a nice circular walk taking in Janet's Fosse waterfall and Gordale Scar. The Hoffman Kiln at Langcliffe is worth looking at, and you can't come into the area without looking at the Ribblehead viaduct.

 

[paul]

running out of lights in the middle of a cave sounds doesn?t bear thinking about ? does that ever happen?

A long time ago I heard the tale - probably apocryphal - of some soldiers who went to explore a cave with just a few candles for light.  The story went that they ran out of light in the depths of the cave and attempted to feel their way out by following one wall of the passage.  Unfortunately they had not noticed a side passage that rejoined the main one, and ended up following a circular path in the darkness until they dropped from exhaustion.  The bodies - so the story went - were found only a short distance from the cave entrance but just out of sight of daylight...   

Unfortunately I can't remember where this was supposed to have happened, or when...  Has anyone else heard that story?

Yes , I read that story but cannot remember just now which book it was in. In that story the unfortunate victims were found with a trail of spent matches following their ciruclar route as their candles had run out and they tried to continue until the last match was used up.

For a happier ending after light failure, see Incident 284 on http://www.derbyshirecro.org.uk/call_outs.html.

 

[kay]

And no 333 on the same link tells of a successful negotiation of 40m of assorted pitches without a light, although the 'caver' concerned did need assistance back to the surface.

 

[dunc]

I wasn't asking about your wet weather option, I was rather hoping someone might chip in with other ideas! I find myself fairly stumped for wet weather horizontal options and usually end up not bothering if the weather is bad.

Very few places that fit! Mistral springs to mind as an obvious one. Dowkabottom should be ok (I recall doing that when Wharfedale sump in Sleets Gill was issuing water)
Can't think of anything else at the moment..

 

[kay]

Does Mistral need a permit? I'd heard that it doesn't but I'm not sure.

A cave with a permit isn't much use as a wet weather option, because you don't have time to organise it. (It's the converse of having a permit for a cave which needs dry weather, and finding you can't use it!)

 

[dunc]

Does Mistral need a permit? I'd heard that it doesn't but I'm not sure.

No, just call at Leck Fell Farm.

A cave with a permit isn't much use as a wet weather option, because you don't have time to organise it. (It's the converse of having a permit for a cave which needs dry weather, and finding you can't use it!)

One of the major drawbacks of a permit system!

 

[kay]

A cave with a permit isn't much use as a wet weather option, because you don't have time to organise it. (It's the converse of having a permit for a cave which needs dry weather, and finding you can't use it!)

One of the major drawbacks of a permit system!

Another being that you have to go through the bureaucracy of forming a club when you just want to go on being a group of friends caving together! Wouldn't it be nice if landowners could accept a group of DIMs as  having the appropriate PL insurance?

 

[TheBitterEnd]

How about Gale Garth as a wet weather option?

 

[kay]

How about Gale Garth as a wet weather option?

Not horizontal, though, is it? Don't you need a ladder to get in?

 

[dunc]

How about Gale Garth as a wet weather option?

Not horizontal, though, is it? Don't you need a ladder to get in?

It's fine in the wet but requires a permit. No ladder needed to get in (just a climb down) or to get to the end, there is a pitch to one side, part way in, which you can descend (can be climbed) which quickly brings you back to the main passage via a short snug passage.

 

[Alex]

I thought Gale Garth was a call at the farm job?