Guidance on when to retire kit

[SteveBonham]

I Intend to qualify for a Local Cave Leader Award and take kids from my school caving. I have a stock of FX2 lights, helmets, and battery/security belts. When I contacted my Education Authority they said that they had no policy on Caving Equipment and would need technical advice from a CIC, but that their policy on retirement of climbing equipment was ropes after three years, webbing, harnesses and helmets after five years.  If this is applied to caving it will render most of my helmets and belts unusable. It also incidently prevents me using my SPA for rock climbing outdors (We could hire equipment at a climbing wall), or my  Mountain Leader Award on scrambles where a helmet should be worn. Under current budget constraints few schools could afford to replace equipment on a 5 year cycle.

What are other local education authority policies-for schools infrequently using equipment not outdoor pursuits centres using equipment intensively?

Is there a UK legal requirement to retire equipment harneses/helmets after just five years of infrequent use? The Petzl website states 'A product must be retired when:
It is over 10 years old and made of plastic or textiles
It has been subjected to a major fall or load
It fails to pass inspection
Its reliability is in question
Its entire history is not known' 

 

[ianball11]

Although I've no understanding of schools caving policies, perhaps it would be worth having a look into scout and guide caving policies?

The Petzl website stuff seems exactly how I treat kit.

 

[Brains]

"Retirement"
Put the stuff on ebay when you would rather use in situ gear or borrowed stuff rather than your own?

 

[Mark Walker]

If its PPE (Personal Protective Equipment Levels 2 and 3) Harnesses, Helmets, Karabiners etc... 10 years is the retirement age. However if you have been put in charge of the kit you should have had it from new. If it's old kit does it have all its PPE inspection sheets with it? Do you know how an where the gears been used? I keep ropes for 5 years minimum, everything else it's 10 years- this is with weekly inspections which are all logged. If I have any doubt about gear I'll throw it away if it's just a maintenance issue you may be able to address it.

 

[nickwilliams]

Is there a UK legal requirement to retire equipment harneses/helmets after just five years of infrequent use?

No, there isn't. There is a requirement (which comes from the PPE Directive) that manufacturers must state a lifetime for their equipment, and most manufacturers give a conservative estimate (for obvious reasons) but there is no legislation which specifies  a precise lifetime.

Nick.

 

[Burt]

Nick Williams has it pretty much spot on.
Don't forget the "limit" on equipment's life is set by manufacturers, who have an inherent interest in selling new kit.

The general rule is that if YOU, the operator / owner, thinks it should be retired, then it probably should. If there's obvious stuff like the core of a rope showing through the sheath, then clearly that one is for the bin.

I am using some equipment at my centre which I have had (from new) since 1998 and it's still more than fit for purpose 'cos it's cared for and not abused. On the other hand, I have managed to trash a rope in 2 outings, so there is no real "rule".

I'd suggest quizzing your education authority on the policy for climbing kit, and asking on what authority this policy was made. Then get a CIC and/or MIA or AALA inspector to have a look at your kit and sign off some sort of tick list for you.

Good luck!

 

[potholer]

Don't forget the "limit" on equipment's life is set by manufacturers, who have an inherent interest in selling new kit.

But then again, if they want to sell new kit to people who are going to pay attention to the stated lifetimes, there's also a limit to how pessimistic they might want to be.

If I expected to use rope relatively lightly, and I was faced with one manufacturer stating a maximum lifetime of 5 years from manufacture and another maker stating a maximum lifetime of 10 years from first use, and up to 5 years between manufacture and first use...

Are there always fixed expiry dates on metal gear?

 

[barrabus]

Are there always fixed expiry dates on metal gear?

No. A well looked after karabiner that passes it's inspection every time can be used indefinitely.

 

[Speleokitty]

I'm sure many of us use PPE beyond the manufacturers recomended lifetime but that is our choice.

I certainly wouldn't want to try and defend myself if someone in my care had been injured due to failure off PPE which was older than the manufacturers recomended life.

Kitty

 

[SteveBonham]

Thanks for the information and advice. I thought the situation was as Nick and Burt describe but I wanted to check.

Just to clarify the group use PPE caving kit I would like to be able to use is currently my own. It is primarily some caving helmets, which have the usual scratches from use but are fit for purpose. Also some Caving Supplies security/wide battery belts that are used for carrying FX2 cells and for assisted hand lines/lifelining on short scrambles on Level one trips. They are mostly more than five years old but are clearly more than fit for purpose and it would seem utterly absurd to bin simply because of age.

My Council outdoor education advisor says there may be insurance problems about using my own kit rather than the schools. I could pass over formal ownership of the kit to school if need be. I hope he does not insist the school needs to own kit from new.

Not using my own kit creates more problems when it comes to rigging/lowering and lifelining if I go for Level two leadership. It would mean duplication. A three year relacement schedule for ropes would be less hassle, After three years could pass them on/sell them to my caving club. Only problem is if I try to get Ogof Clogwyn in South Wales onto my leader list. Having to have an 80M under three years old rope for a handline down to the entrance!

Burt suggested that I quiz my my education authority about on whose authority policy about retirement schedules for climbing kit was made. An e-mail from the Education Authorities Outdoor Education Advisor stated 'The replacement schedule for climbing kit is ******* CC policy following advice from our MIC and follows current best practice Nationally'.  Fortunately it also stated that since they had not had a group caving since '98 they would need a CIC to look over all their caving guidance before authorising caving and that 'Once we get caving up and running we will take advice from a CIC over the life expectancy of kit for use with groups and that will become  ********** CC policy clearly caving kit is different from climbing kit and its inherent durability may lead to different replacement schedules.' Burts suggestion of getting a CIC to look over kit and come up with an inspection regime might be able to fit in with this. A very helpful suggestion.

Maybe I can resolve things for Caving. PPE Kit I can use for outdoor rock climbing will reman a problem.

 

[hrock]

so much confusion.

the anser is do what the manifature says!

so pezil say metal kit has an indefinite life and need to be retierd on inspection
but txtiles are max 10 years (but in caving is quite hard on it so i would guess you will strugle to get it to 10 years)
beal say max 5 years of storage (eg on the shelf of a were house/shop) and 10 years of use 

and there all a little different (it is one resen some out fits try to only get kit from one or two manufactures to simplify the system)

then i think you are also asking about the uk laws regarding inspection this is a hole nother mine field

i can recommend a course run by lyon on equipment inspection (but i did not pay)
its good and covers the lot and it is not as i have heard people saying a way of telling you to chuck out all your kit and get new stuf quite alot of it is about repare and mantinace and in some things you would be surprised what is expectable damage.

but the assessment at the end is well hard. 

"No. A well looked after karabiner that passes it's inspection every time can be used indefinitely." no it depends who makes it that is not true of all kasabiners