Has the CRoW debate(s) made any difference to your opinion?

[Simon Wilson]

personally I am fed up of crow debates, all I think all the debates have created is a bigger gulf than was when we started.

This is the sort of thing that I think has happened. The creation of a gulf is possibly the most significant thing that has happened and it is damaging for British caving.

 

[Les W]

I am not 'getting personal' and this is not intended as a criticism but I think it is significant that the poll and the question was started by a Mendip caver. I could say it that it indicates to me that the person does not understand the CRoW issue but I will be more diplomatic and say that it indicates that the person has a different perspective on the issue.

Simon, I'm pretty sure Jackalpup is not a Mendip Caver.

 

[mikem]

UCET are based in North Wales. From an early post on the thread:

The whole point was to see what difference the debates/arguments that have occurred on HERE have made to the people on HERE.

In other words, has there been any "value" to the (heated) debates or has no one changed their views (as is so often cited).

We can already see that there has been a value ...... that's all I was interested in.

...

Ian

 

[Ian Adams]

I am not 'getting personal' and this is not intended as a criticism but I think it is significant that the poll and the question was started by a Mendip caver. I could say it that it indicates to me that the person does not understand the CRoW issue but I will be more diplomatic and say that it indicates that the person has a different perspective on the issue.

Simon,

I think you have mis-understood me and the reason for the poll.

I am not a Mendip caver, I live in North Wales. Cave in North Wales, the Peak District and Yorkshire.

I am Pro-CRoW and a proponent for open access.

I asked the question because I have seen it said so many times (paraphrased) This is a pointless discussion because everyone has already made up their mind and entrenched.  I was interested to see if the debates/arguments had actually made any difference. In my case they had. As much as there were many statements stating that "no one will change their view" - I suspected at least some other people would move on their position (if only a little).

The poll was looking at whether people did experience a change of view and to what extent.

It is specifically anonymous and specifically silent on detail (ie. what element you changed your view on) so as to focus on the value of the debates/arguments on UKc.

The poll is showing that there was some value in the many CRoW discussions on UKc ....



Ian

 

[droid]

Debate is valuable. It can help people get their thoughts in order, and can answer questions.

It is far less valuable when it becomes *ad hominem* or personal.

 

[todcaver]

I honestly still don't know the outcome of the debate or is it still being debated? 
I also can't see what difference it will / would make to anything following either outcome ? 
Allowed in caves or not allowed in caves ?
Trusted to be respectful or assumed irresponsible ?
Derbyshire keys or only me's ?

i really would like some simple 2 sides of the story/argument info ?  :blink:

 

[AR]

Sorry, but it's not a simple this-or-that argument, much like the Brexit debate there are many possibilities of outcome and shades of grey in it. There is also a great amount of personal attack and pointless mud-slinging obscuring the real issues, hence why I just want to scream about the whole thing....

 

[cavemanmike]

i think the point of this thread was just to use the poll and not start yet another blood crow debate .
just sayin

 

[todcaver]

Not looking too .,,,
Just wandering what's going on in the two sides ?
Has the issue now been resolved ?
If so what was the out come ?
That's all  :halo:

 

[mikem]

They'e agreed to differ...

Mike

 

[NewStuff]

They'e agreed to differ...

Mike

No, we do indeed differ, but there's very little agreeing happening.