Pete Brookdale
New member
Inlet Sixpointfiveandthreequarters ?? anyone shed some more light on this?
Notts 2
- Thread starter Pete Brookdale
- Start date
Pete Brookdale
New member
Illuminated
[mod]Image removed as apparently it's in breach of copyright[/mod]
[mod]Image removed as apparently it's in breach of copyright[/mod]
Pete Brookdale
New member
copyright? its on the web for all to see
http://www.freesteel.co.uk/wpblog/2012/08/more-caving-weekends-with-added-digging/
http://www.freesteel.co.uk/wpblog/2012/08/more-caving-weekends-with-added-digging/
martinm
New member
Pete Brookdale said:
Yep, even the survey data is online! Here:-
http://cave-registry.org.uk/svn/Yorkshire/mmmmc/survexdata/NottsII/Inlet5/Inlet5-Resurvey-2.svx
Peeps should be more careful, if they want to keep stuff quiet...
bog4053
Member
Apart from issues of copying other people?s material I wouldn?t get too excited about sixpointfiveand threequarters which simply goes into Inlet 5 and passage which has been known for years. It?s an easy way in for divers and diggers but looking at the digs and diving I wouldn?t get too excited about that either.
The thing about sixpointfiveandthreequarters is that even without their hearing aids a bunch of old men shifted a huge amount of earth and contributed significantly to the opening of the new linking passage. The story about digging a tunnel from both ends and linking up perfectly is a good one and we were going to tell it as a tale with a difference at Hidden Earth.
Thanks to Dalechops and his pals there is nothing left to tell so we will have to think of something else or forget the idea altogether.
The thing about sixpointfiveandthreequarters is that even without their hearing aids a bunch of old men shifted a huge amount of earth and contributed significantly to the opening of the new linking passage. The story about digging a tunnel from both ends and linking up perfectly is a good one and we were going to tell it as a tale with a difference at Hidden Earth.
Thanks to Dalechops and his pals there is nothing left to tell so we will have to think of something else or forget the idea altogether.
A bit of a throwaway comment, anyway, to take a random example or two - I found out about It's A Cracker via the internet but still read the full story in the recent issue of Descent, Kirk Pot was recently extended and again some details were to be found on here but I still read about that too. If either, both or something else I know about are presented at HE (assuming I go) then in all likelihood I (along with many others) would still sit in as there's always more to a story than just brief details on the net.... Sounds like a great effort anyway, well done to all concerned.bog4053 said:
And to be fair you have actually provided more details about it with your post than anyone else. The post by mmilner sums it up too, if you want to keep it quiet and not reveal much then members of surveying teams (or draw-er-uppers) shouldn't post information on a publicly viewable (partly cave related) blog..
The website it was taken from is nothing to do with any of the diggers involved, and the person who has put it on that website to the best of out knowledge also has nothing to do with the dig, yet they have photo's of the dig, the diggers and a copy of a section of the survey (which isn't yet finished) without permission.
Russ
Russ
Cave Mapper
Member
I'm looking forward to hearing the first hand account of the dig at HE, even though I've already read a detailed account of it and seen some videos of it, and completed the round trip.
What's the point of trying to keep things secret? We should all be celebrating these successes, and knowing about them provides more incentive to go to HE to hear the full story, not less.
I thought the core ethos of the Misty Mountain Mud Miners and Leck Fell exploration generally was one of openness, inter-club cooperation, and surveys that are produced collaboratively and are free from copyright restrictions. Maybe I don't understand the subtleties of these things.
What's the point of trying to keep things secret? We should all be celebrating these successes, and knowing about them provides more incentive to go to HE to hear the full story, not less.
I thought the core ethos of the Misty Mountain Mud Miners and Leck Fell exploration generally was one of openness, inter-club cooperation, and surveys that are produced collaboratively and are free from copyright restrictions. Maybe I don't understand the subtleties of these things.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Re your last paragraph above Cave Mapper - much of Kirk Pot is under Leck Fell. When we started to find new stuff earlier this year, one of the things I've most enjoyed is the involvement of people from several clubs. Each participant has had something specific to offer to the project and the survey of the new stuff has been available to anyone who wants it since the start. I realise there are situations where information is best not broadcast immediately (for all sorts of good reasons) but I've generally found over the years that more is achieved through co-operation than insularity.
Bit of an unfair comment this. Presumably Pete had heard something about the dig and breakthrough prior to starting this thread, otherwise why would he be asking for further information in the first place.bog4053 said:
Yet the person who put it on his website claimed to have been there when the passages were connected. If so, he was involved in the dig wasn't he? Surely the other guys must have invited him along?Russ b said:
Bottom line is that you found something new in July and wanted to keep it quiet a whole three months in order to announce it at the conference (fine, nothing wrong with that in my opinion) but patently failed to do so. Bit feeble isn't it?
Sorry been abroad exploring so not had chance to catchup with this.
As the day to day administrator of http://cave-registry.org.uk/
This site is provided by the BCA as a useful tool to cavers so that we avoid the massive loss of survey data that has happened previously. See the site for more details. Although openness is encouraged, it is not part of the tool, it is possible to make information only available to registered users or that particular project (this can be done for parts or all of the area). The current repository area named Yorkshire is a port from its original home on knowledgeforge, and as far as I know it has been open for some time. (Although there might be some restriction about commercial use, but I cannot be bothered to check right now)
On a personal note, I tend to feel that this is a good thing, allowing people to work by adding to existing information. Sometimes it a can take the wow factor out of a HE presentation, but lets face it, this is most likely to have happened due to the talk in the pub, not the survey. (I have to admit to hiding the Charterhouse survey as showing the extension to be many times as long as the existing survey did have a wow factor that could only be seen as a survey but all the rest has been uploaded usually within hours of the trip returning.) Plus making it available, can be a great help, I have had errors pointed out, which I have now corrected, leading to better information, it has also lead to others joining in the project, again making it better. Using a Version Control system, makes this all nearly fool proof, as older versions are always there for comparison. I think that the Yorkshire repository has a version number of 2383 as I write this, and with a log in all those changes can be tracked.
At the end of the day it is a tool to be used that will accept data in any format, although some recommendations so that it can be used in the future are given. As with all tools it is up to the user what they make with them, I hope it can be made into a useful resource for the future.
Andrew
As the day to day administrator of http://cave-registry.org.uk/
This site is provided by the BCA as a useful tool to cavers so that we avoid the massive loss of survey data that has happened previously. See the site for more details. Although openness is encouraged, it is not part of the tool, it is possible to make information only available to registered users or that particular project (this can be done for parts or all of the area). The current repository area named Yorkshire is a port from its original home on knowledgeforge, and as far as I know it has been open for some time. (Although there might be some restriction about commercial use, but I cannot be bothered to check right now)
On a personal note, I tend to feel that this is a good thing, allowing people to work by adding to existing information. Sometimes it a can take the wow factor out of a HE presentation, but lets face it, this is most likely to have happened due to the talk in the pub, not the survey. (I have to admit to hiding the Charterhouse survey as showing the extension to be many times as long as the existing survey did have a wow factor that could only be seen as a survey but all the rest has been uploaded usually within hours of the trip returning.) Plus making it available, can be a great help, I have had errors pointed out, which I have now corrected, leading to better information, it has also lead to others joining in the project, again making it better. Using a Version Control system, makes this all nearly fool proof, as older versions are always there for comparison. I think that the Yorkshire repository has a version number of 2383 as I write this, and with a log in all those changes can be tracked.
At the end of the day it is a tool to be used that will accept data in any format, although some recommendations so that it can be used in the future are given. As with all tools it is up to the user what they make with them, I hope it can be made into a useful resource for the future.
Andrew
