Problems at BMC

Cantclimbtom

Well-known member
A cautionary tale...
Will the British Caving Association ever do the same and blow all the money on caving competitions and wildly uncontrolled expenses (e.g. taxi fares in the tens of thousands) then issue unusually opaque financial reports.
The day that speed caving becomes an Olympic sport will the BCA's undoing... heed my warning!
 

Jenny P

Active member
It's the curse of sports which go in for competitions because they can get money from UK or England Sports officialdon as they have a chance to win gold medals. It's bedevilled university sport with some caving clubs being told they now don't qualify for support from the Student Union (or whatever has now replaced it) because they have no chance of gold medals.

I'm all for supporting the Ramblers 'cos I don't think you can have competitive Rambling. (Race Walking is a totally differnt thing.)
 

mikem

Well-known member
Most unis have a split between sports clubs & non-sports, but, to confuse things, caving used to be funded by the Sports Council
 

aricooperdavis

Moderator
Exeter uni won the CHECC competitions once (essentially beer pong and some caving games) and we told our University about it. They clearly thought this was more impressive that it was because they gave us a couple of grand for SRT kits and ropes under some kind of exceptional sporting development grant...
 

Aubrey

Member
It's the curse of sports which go in for competitions because they can get money from UK or England Sports officialdon as they have a chance to win gold medals. It's bedevilled university sport with some caving clubs being told they now don't qualify for support from the Student Union (or whatever has now replaced it) because they have no chance of gold medals.

I'm all for supporting the Ramblers 'cos I don't think you can have competitive Rambling. (Race Walking is a totally differnt thing.)
You may not have competitive Rambling but the Ramblers have just spent a lot of money paying an external consultant to assess the risks of walking and are employing staff to dream up requirements such as mandatory written risk assessments before every walk. These all cost money and discourage volunteers.
 
A cautionary tale...
Will the British Caving Association ever do the same and blow all the money on caving competitions and wildly uncontrolled expenses (e.g. taxi fares in the tens of thousands) then issue unusually opaque financial reports.
The day that speed caving becomes an Olympic sport will the BCA's undoing... heed my warning!
They would need to build a replica swildons to sump 1 wherever the Olympics was and set permissable Butcombe etc blood levels ...
 

mikem

Well-known member
But they also have a lot more outside funding e.g. Olympics, so equivalent is lower than that
 

Stuart France

Active member
The BMC needs to improve its "offering" to its present 85k members, including me, who are its main "market", by getting its focus back on to hills and mountains as nice places to visit and enjoy - in and of themselves - and on hill-walking and climbing as mainstream pursuits, and to recruit a lot more of general leisure people. The other side of this coin is to put an end to overt wokery, the promotion of competitions and of competitiveness in general, and to rid itself of whatever does not appeal to their best recruiting ground and the interests of the average member. You go into a big outdoors shop, and all the climbing hardware is tucked away in one corner while the main sales floor is full of clothing, boots, camping stuff... duh!

But doesn't their present financial embarrassment arise from having to pay a significant "excess" on an insurance claim in recent years? I always thought the BMC's annual premium on a per member basis looked modest compared to BCA's. I had assumed this was just an economy of scale, but now wonder if instead they bet the ranch on no successful claim ever arising?
 

Brown

New member
The BMC needs to improve its "offering" to its present 85k members, including me, who are its main "market", by getting its focus back on to hills and mountains as nice places to visit and enjoy - in and of themselves - and on hill-walking and climbing as mainstream pursuits, and to recruit a lot more of general leisure people. The other side of this coin is to put an end to overt wokery, the promotion of competitions and of competitiveness in general, and to rid itself of whatever does not appeal to their best recruiting ground and the interests of the average member. You go into a big outdoors shop, and all the climbing hardware is tucked away in one corner while the main sales floor is full of clothing, boots, camping stuff... duh!

But doesn't their present financial embarrassment arise from having to pay a significant "excess" on an insurance claim in recent years? I always thought the BMC's annual premium on a per member basis looked modest compared to BCA's. I had assumed this was just an economy of scale, but now wonder if instead they bet the ranch on no successful claim ever arising?
You seem deeply confused as to Wokery.

The other channels and those I know and speak with see the BMCs environmental and sustainability roles as being absolutely key to its purpose and a vital part of its remit.

As to elitism being woke! It's the absolute opposite as it brutally rewards the best. You don't get participation prizes.

There are many many issues with the BMC but I don't think wokisum is one.
 

AlexR

Active member
In line with what Brown said:

I’m not sure what Stuart is referring to with „wokism“ - a conveniently meaningless catch-all term for anything a person doesn’t agree with.
But if this is meant to refer to environmental protection I disagree. If anything, this and the proactive representation of climbers & mountaineers are the BMCs roles I personally value the most (cf. the recent mend our mountains campaign).

If I read the numbers correctly, funding for this has actually decreased.
 

alastairgott

Well-known member
I don't want to put words into Stuarts mouth, but taking a look at their website, there does seem to be many articles about Mend our mountains in popular destinations such as Ingleborough, Wernside and the lake district. I guess these are our hills and mountains and they do need mending, but my cynical side would lean on the fact that these are popular search terms and likely to give The BMC good press in the social media outlets. retweets and reposts of people that have been there recently, and therefore promoting a good self image with a few albeit large and hard to organise events which are high impact.

There will be hills which go unpublicised by the BMC, and which are probably equally in need of some attention, probably even some of them along the spine route of England (other than kinder scout and Kirk Yetholme), some of the ones not far out of deprived areas of the UK. These are the areas we need people to visit.

The mass trespass would have been a big galvaniser for getting a huge swathe of society out into the countryside, we have had another recent event which also did the same, and taking a look at their news page from around that time there was one article that caught my eye along the lines of this https://www.thebmc.co.uk/the-grass-isnt-greener-for-everyone-why-access-to-green-space-matters

It references a report by the Ramblers, of which there are 10 points which have been made, only a couple are highlighted in the BMC article.

https://cdn.ramblers.org.uk/media/files/ramblers-access-nature-11_0.pdf

There are 32 employees of the BMC, according to their website with 75k members (and 250 affiliate clubs).
The Ramblers have 100 staff members with 100k members.

The BMC's mantra seems to be being all things to all people. and whether it's possible or not to provide assistance to all is potentially up for debate.

Our Values

Community: We are the voice for our diverse community of climbers, hill walkers and mountaineers.

Adventure: We believe in the freedom to challenge ourselves, taking personal responsibility for the risks.

Sustainability: We protect our crags and mountains, campaign for improved access and promote environmental sustainability.

Aspiration: We help people improve their skills, confidence and achieve personal ambitions.

Respect: We celebrate the rich variety of British climbing, hill walking and mountaineering; we build inclusive relationships and respect each other.

Our 2020-2024 Mission

We will link the work of all our staff, volunteers, clubs, and partners, to campaign effectively and increase engagement, becoming a stronger voice for climbers, hill walkers and mountaineers.

One part of the Ramblers report which is not outlined in the BMC article is Terry's story:
"We live in a flat in a built-up area, and we’ve no private garden, but it’s still lovely because we have access to two nature reserves within a few minutes’ walk – proximity is everything when you don’t drive and there’s minimal public transport. It’s when I’m outdoors and away from machine noises that I feel my connection to the whole planet most. In green spaces, I feel self-aware and at the same time connected to everything I’m hearing and seeing. Sometimes, it’s overwhelming. On my regular short-walk around the fields I can hear birds which I think are skylarks. The very first time I heard them I got a lump in my throat, the freshness of seeing something so new, that I’d never experienced before, brought me to tears of joy. How lucky I am."

The bread and butter of your youth climbers, Hill walkers and people without access to a car in the UK will have to use public transport. For me there are two standout moments in my uni days, one was getting on a train to North wales and then a bus to llanberis to camp with Jonny Booth and climb Snowdon (before sunrise) and come down Crib Goch, hitchhiking our way back down to llanberis as my walking boots were giving me jip.
The other was getting a train from near Crewe to Aberdare train station to then do Craig Yr Ffynnon.
I think i've also done the same for Mendip in those days, Yatton Station rings a bell, i think i got off one too soon at Nailsea by accident and got chided by my friends.

I look at my links into Derbyshire from where I live and can see great gaps in the service, for example there is no link between Glossop and Chapel-en-le-Frith by Bus.

But it's easy to look in hindsight at some of these things.
 

Brown

New member
I don't want to put words into Stuarts mouth, but taking a look at their website, there does seem to be many articles about Mend our mountains in popular destinations such as Ingleborough, Wernside and the lake district. I guess these are our hills and mountains and they do need mending, but my cynical side would lean on the fact that these are popular search terms and likely to give The BMC good press in the social media outlets. retweets and reposts of people that have been there recently, and therefore promoting a good self image with a few albeit large and hard to organise events which are high impact.

There will be hills which go unpublicised by the BMC, and which are probably equally in need of some attention, probably even some of them along the spine route of England (other than kinder scout and Kirk Yetholme), some of the ones not far out of deprived areas of the UK. These are the areas we need people to visit.

The mass trespass would have been a big galvaniser for getting a huge swathe of society out into the countryside, we have had another recent event which also did the same, and taking a look at their news page from around that time there was one article that caught my eye along the lines of this https://www.thebmc.co.uk/the-grass-isnt-greener-for-everyone-why-access-to-green-space-matters

It references a report by the Ramblers, of which there are 10 points which have been made, only a couple are highlighted in the BMC article.

https://cdn.ramblers.org.uk/media/files/ramblers-access-nature-11_0.pdf

There are 32 employees of the BMC, according to their website with 75k members (and 250 affiliate clubs).
The Ramblers have 100 staff members with 100k members.

The BMC's mantra seems to be being all things to all people. and whether it's possible or not to provide assistance to all is potentially up for debate.

Our Values

Community: We are the voice for our diverse community of climbers, hill walkers and mountaineers.

Adventure: We believe in the freedom to challenge ourselves, taking personal responsibility for the risks.

Sustainability: We protect our crags and mountains, campaign for improved access and promote environmental sustainability.

Aspiration: We help people improve their skills, confidence and achieve personal ambitions.

Respect: We celebrate the rich variety of British climbing, hill walking and mountaineering; we build inclusive relationships and respect each other.


Our 2020-2024 Mission

We will link the work of all our staff, volunteers, clubs, and partners, to campaign effectively and increase engagement, becoming a stronger voice for climbers, hill walkers and mountaineers.

One part of the Ramblers report which is not outlined in the BMC article is Terry's story:
"We live in a flat in a built-up area, and we’ve no private garden, but it’s still lovely because we have access to two nature reserves within a few minutes’ walk – proximity is everything when you don’t drive and there’s minimal public transport. It’s when I’m outdoors and away from machine noises that I feel my connection to the whole planet most. In green spaces, I feel self-aware and at the same time connected to everything I’m hearing and seeing. Sometimes, it’s overwhelming. On my regular short-walk around the fields I can hear birds which I think are skylarks. The very first time I heard them I got a lump in my throat, the freshness of seeing something so new, that I’d never experienced before, brought me to tears of joy. How lucky I am."

The bread and butter of your youth climbers, Hill walkers and people without access to a car in the UK will have to use public transport. For me there are two standout moments in my uni days, one was getting on a train to North wales and then a bus to llanberis to camp with Jonny Booth and climb Snowdon (before sunrise) and come down Crib Goch, hitchhiking our way back down to llanberis as my walking boots were giving me jip.
The other was getting a train from near Crewe to Aberdare train station to then do Craig Yr Ffynnon.
I think i've also done the same for Mendip in those days, Yatton Station rings a bell, i think i got off one too soon at Nailsea by accident and got chided by my friends.

I look at my links into Derbyshire from where I live and can see great gaps in the service, for example there is no link between Glossop and Chapel-en-le-Frith by Bus.

But it's easy to look in hindsight at some of these things.
Ah the ramblers association are super Woke.

That lot have it all. Criminal direct action. Communist splinter groupes. Links to members of the lefty labour party. Egalitarianism. Land right campaigning.
 

Wardy

Active member
Caving Heptathlon / relay combo

Set off by car collecting / waking up the rest of the team
Race to the entrance
Put your gear on
Race back for some forgotten items or pay a penalty and replace it at the local shop
Bottom the trip
De rig and get back out
The race to the pub, eating fish and chips on the way before knecking 4 pints and believing you deserve a medal

How I love our sport, where the challenge comes from the pure adventure and nothing more
 
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